Ok people, Im looking to build a 1895 Marlin in a 45/70. I want to pump it up for 500gr shooting. Has anyone had any luck doing this? Or has anyone rebarrelled/chambered for something larger.

Good shooting
Fred

Do yourself a favor and take an out of the box Marlin, load it up with Garret's 540 grain Hammerheads and see if you want to pump it up any farther. Garret's ammo is expensive but still cheaper that modifiying a perfectly good rifle. Ed

Fred. The big problem with the new model 1895 marlins is you are limited to a cartridge length of 2.55", although I have gotten away with 2.57" in mine. The original 1895 Marlin had a longer action that allowed somewhat longer cartridge length. RCBS makes a 500 gr. bullet mold that is suitable for Marlins. You can reach 1533 FPS with IMR-3031 according to the RCBS cast bullet manual. Believe that would be a pretty fair thumper on both ends. I loaded up some Lee 500 gr. bullets (cast) for mine. A friend borrowed it and shot a 6 point bull elk in a Texas heart shot that went from arsehole to the front of the animal, lodging against the skin at the chest. velocity was about 1600 FPS at the muzzle and the range was about 25 yards in black timber. I forget the charge of 3031 I used as all of my loading data was lost in the move from Nevada to Arizona. Anyway, I hopde this gives you some idea of what can be done with a 500 gr. bullet.
Paul B.

Paul,
Thank you for the information. That is about what I expected.Im thinking of geting some action work done to see if I can get any more lenth.I will also be adding a muzzle break ,sometime. Ive only ever owned one lever before. I believe this will be a interesting project.

Thanks again
Fred

A question.
Were the original Marlin 1895s, say 1970s vintage, the longer action? Or are they the same action length of the current issue?
Jim

I think he was referring to the 1895 issue of the 1895. Current 1895s are built using the 336 action as a base and have been without, as far as I know, any lengthening.

There's several doing modifications as described. Please see Levergun gunsmiths for a partial list.

Hobie has it right. The original 1895 Marlins had a longer action which could take ammo of the same length as the 1886 Winchester. The current version, based on the 336 action is shorter.
A very good friend of mine has a very minty 1881 marlin that is quite accurate, but loads must be kept to black powder levels. Dang thing weighs a ton too. About eleven pounds loaded.
Paul B.

1600 FPS witha 500 gr. bullet is pushing the 45-70 to the hilt and dangerously so perhaps....

At any rate a 500 gr. bullet at 1600 FPS is not sufficient velocity for me to shoot a buffalo with and comes under the stunt catagory in my opinnion..It can be done, but I don't want to stop a Buff charge with it or have to let my PH pull my dumb ass out of the fire.....

The 458 Win. has failed enough to cause a pretty dramatic stir among Africans as the factorys load it and at its worst it gets 1900, but absolutly needs 2000 and 2100 is a bunch better with that big a bulllet....In big bores a 100 FPS is a lot, in smaller bores its zilch....

Just for the sake of discussion, I believe I read an article about that very thing not long ago and will try to dredge it up. The author may have been the guy who wrote "Accurizing the Lever Action". I remember one issue is to open up the cartridge carrier or elevator as it controls the length of the round that will feed up to the limit of the action and as supplied, the limit of the action is greater than that of the carrier.

Thanks people, Lots of Info!!
Just for info, I agree the 45/70 is not a buffalo killer. I would not try it on any such game. I was thinking more in the area of Elk maybe moose at closer range. I basicaly just like power in odd places. thanks people

Happy Shooting
Fred

tiggertate
I would love that info
If you find it ...thanks

[ 11-21-2003, 00:08: Message edited by: 12.9x50.8jdj ]

The article was by M. L. McPherson.

[ 11-21-2003, 01:50: Message edited by: David Atherton ]

I think it approaches its best with a hard cast bullet that penitrates like the dickens.

I looked last night to no avail. I'll keep my eye open but since you know the author now I would call the magazine and get a back issue or xerox of that article. It will save your gunsmith countless hours of re-inventing the wheel. As I recall, the process allows the crimp to applied in the cannelure, allowing more powder room and reasonable velocities without bullet set back. It really doesn't do much in a practical way that Ray's suggestion won't do but then, you don't sound like practical is as high on the list as fun.

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but 500 grain bullets may not work in the Marlin for another reason than carrier dimensions.

The Marlin 95 shares the same rifling twist rate as my Ruger #1 in that caliber--1/20". 500 grain cast and jacketed bullets did not shoot AT ALL at any velocity in the Ruger, and often cartwheeled downrange. More recently, the SAECO 405 grain semi-spitzer cast bullet showed instability and inaccuracy at 1200 FPS, and until velocities went to 1450 FPS accuracy was non-existent.

The 458 Win Mag--which was designed around the 500 grain bullet it seems--has a long throat and 1/14" twist.

I suggest a consult with a riflebuilder or shooter involved in Black Powder Cartridge/long range venues to learn what twist rates and velocity ranges are involved in their sport. Granted--the velocities involved are lower than those possible in the Marlin, but the conditions that stabilize a Postell or Snover 450-500 grain 45 caliber couldn't hurt a 500 grainer out of a Marlin at 1400 or so.

Well, thanks people,
I think you helped save me a lot of problems. I have talked to several gunsmiths and found that what I wanted just isnt a winning idea. The action is strong enough for most heavy loads however 500 gr just wont work and 400 will be tough. There is just no room to be made in the action and carrier for a longer case. The twist is too fast and a rebarrel and muzzle break is big bucks on a marlin..... so long story longer Its to plan B ...... 375 H&H or 257 Weatherby ....Hmmmmmmmm two ends of the
spectrum.
what to do ???

Thanks to all that replied
have a safe and happy holiday season
Fred

Well ........... Im so full of SH#$
After shooting my friends 1865ss , I found that the gun fit me beautifuly! 3 shots , One large hole ! Well , Im the proud New owner of a 1895g ported. What can I say, I just like it.
Enjoy people
Fred

Larry, if you read this , thanks a bunch

[ 11-23-2003, 05:46: Message edited by: 12.9x50.8jdj ]

1st, yes you can shoot 500 grain hard cast loads in the 1895. They are available commercially Garrett sells them, http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp

The Marlin can handle up to about 40,000 psi which is well beyond the normal 45-70 range. Garrett loads their ammo up to 35,000.

Loads in this range have a Taylor KO value of 54 and about 45 ft/lbs of recoil. For most people this is not a comfortable round to shoot. Given the stock design of the Marlin, I believe it makes it even more uncomfortable. It can be tamed a bit, but that is another matter.

With all due respect to Ray, I do not believe that taking DG with this round is a stunt. Like all hunting tools, it has to be done with a conscious knowlege of the limitations of the tool. Again, check Garrett's site for more info on this. It is possible to load a 400 grn bullet to 1900+ fps and still stay under the pressure limit of the Marlin. This approaches the muzzle velocity of a 450-400.

I personally prefer not to spend a day at the range with anything that is going to kick that hard. I simply do not call that fun. For a fun load, try 12 grains of Unique behind a 300 grn lead bullet. In my rifle that gives a very accurate and fun round. But in no way would I use it on game.

I am not sure what you intend to hunt. But for most game, you would be better served with a 400 - 426 grain bullet doing about 1600 fps. This gives about 26 ft/lbs of recoil and will take all but the largest bears within about 135 yards.

There is also an outfit that will rechamber the marlin for the 50 alaskan. A touch more powerful than the 45/70.

Pete

[ 11-25-2003, 05:10: Message edited by: Quail Wing ]

Quail wing,

I am aware of Garretts webht and his claims, I know a 45-70 will kill anything, I know a 30-30 will do the same...

I know that I won't use one and ask Garrett how many Buffalo HE has killed with a 45-70...not what his clients claim..no, its a stunt IMO, but again thats just my opinnion..I shoot deer with a 25-35 and a 222 and that is also a stunt, I admit it.

I have stood the Buffalo charge more than several times, I know what he looks like and it ain't pretty, and I never have been satisfied with the caliber I had on hand at the time and they were 404s, 416s, and 505s..Thats my opinnion. What is yours and how many Buffalo have you stood a charge armed with a 45-70....

However, you are correct if you don't mind allowing your PH to step in and sort things out, same with bow hunters and buffalo, this is a consideration you must make...I never want a PH to pull my fat out of the fire, never!

M.L. McPherson describes the procedure for increasing maximum COAL in the Marlin 1895 in the October 1998 issue of Precision Shooting magazine. This issue is out of print, but copies of the article can be obtained from the publisher.

I would add Jim Brockman to the list of lever gun gunsmiths.

http://www.brockmansrifles.com/index.asp

How about this pic?Vince Lupo and his 45-70 lever.

I have been using the 1895 SS and a newer Guide Gun in 45-70 for many years now, I have used the heavier 400 to 500 grain loads but many years ago settled on a 350 grain Hard Cast FNGC loaded at 2000 FPS with Reloader 7 @ 51.8. I have shot many moose and bear with this load with complete pent. even on shoulder hits which I prefer with cast bullets. The Recoil of the heavier bullets is also quite severe when loaded at top vel.

[ 12-02-2003, 05:26: Message edited by: Alaska Bush Man ]

Mic McPherson has started tuning and modifying Marlin lever-guns the way he discusses in the article. If anyone is interested I can provide contact information for Mic who by the way is one heck of a nice guy and a wealth of information on reloading in general and loading for lever-guns in particular.