Glad to see you could make it. Now this thread is complete!

"Should penetrate..."
"TYPICAL penetration in mild steel"
"Ought to penetrate..."

What a load of irrelevent BS. You're the master of the smoke screen, Scott. Unfortunately your ignorance of the real world of hunting always shines thru.

It would so help your case if you put down all the little books and crap you try to quote from and actually went hunting for something.

WOW 3 replies, I must have really hit a nerve.
ScottS I see you're just not absorbing my point. You vaunt penetration momentum density as the holy grail of hunting cartridge performance. I shall quote you-

"Jayco,
The issue with the 45-70 versus the 405 Winchester is all about penetration."

I'm telling you you can not judge performance on just this one criteria, just as you can't judge performance on just muzzle velocity or TKO value or muzzle energy or projectile shape, or projectile construction alone. These are all meant as comparative values. All TKO value does is add projectile diameter into the equasion that muzzle energy alone does not address. Lack of experiance will allow you to dismiss the important factor of projectile diameter. It's takes a combination of all these values, with compromises in some values to understand real performance. I'll say it just one more time and I hope it sinks in this time- the true test of cartridge/load can only be proven in the field on living flesh, blood, and bones. All your ranting, pencil pushing, and the semester in physics will not prove otherwise. Take a deep breath, count to 10, then read my original post again. All I said was you have to take other values into consideration when assessing performance. My 30 years hunting experiance with countless game animals taken efficiently, and humanely back up what I suggest. When you have more than a couple years actually killing big game efficiently in the field under your belt then maybe you will truly understand my point. Armchair experts are dime a dozen. True expertise is gained by time, and experiance. Knowledge is nothing without the wisdom to apply that knowledge in a practical manner. Otherwise it just remains as theory.

I must give a heartfelt AMEN to Pecos45

Hawaiian_Hunter,

I see your unable to address the question of the TKO and the 12 gauge slug. I also see you enjoy taking quotes out of context. Would you be shocked to discover I have known from the get go that you are a trolling loser?

For your information, you ignorant moron, momentum density does VERY MUCH consider the bullets diameter! Far more accurately than Taylor's pathetic attempt does, I might add.

You really should stop posting BS on these websites and get to work accumulating that "30 years of big game hunting" you say you have got.

But this is what I like about Accurate Reloading, the never ending line of ignorant, know-nothing, trolls! It is even richer when these losers call me the troll.

Now if you really want to impress me, you will come clean and provide your REAL name and all the handles you post here with!

Scott