Had a lot of fun tonight shooting a lever action 38 special at the club tonight, got me thinking about getting something along those lines.

When pistols were banned in 1997 many of the ex-pistol shooters who did not give up the sport took up something called "gallery rifle", which was basically the pistol courses of fire but shot with short and handy carbines.

These use the same ranges and so are limited to pistol calibres, allwoing them to be used indoors, etc.

Shooting a rifle like that, with open sights and stood on your hind feet like a man is tricky than it looks...

Did manage to shoot a 4" group a couple of times though.

i am coming to this from a hunting background so advice on rifles, calibres, in fact everything would be much appreciated.

These pistol caliber rifles are very popular in the US for hunting, plinking, cowboy action shooting, and self defense.
The .38/.357 is very flexible and my favorite as I also shoot .357 revolvers.
With the right bullets, the .357 rifle is good for most light to medium game within 100 yards.

You will find many brands and combinations with or without scopes. Have fun researching, shopping, and shooting which ever combination you prefer. Also, please post your experiences with your project.

I love shooting mine, I have one of the Uberti 'Iron Frame 1860 Henrys' and it is really fun. I also have a Navy Arms 1892's with a 24 inch Octagon barrel and Rossi 45 Colt, Rossi 44 mag and a Rossi 454 Casull which is really accurate with the Lee 300 gr flat point bullet. I don't have a 357 mag yet but want to get a Uberti 1873 in 357 mag to play with. I also have a 94 Marlin chambered in 357 x 44 Bain & Davis and it is a definite ball to shoot. It'll chunk 125 gr jhp's out at between 2200 and 2300 fps.

Steve.........

Thanks chaps, mucho fun and the ability to have a shoot after work is amazing for this city boy!

I'm not sure what rifle I am using, the club hires rifles out to members, but it had an unexpectedly sweet trigger and was pretty accurate with peep sights.

Here is the rifle and my best two targets!





If I concentrate and rest between shots I can shoot something like a 3-4" group for 5 shots, what sort of standard should i be aiming for in your experience chaps?

I have a 357 max TC carbine a 357 mag marlin and a 44mag ruger great little guns.

They are great guns for young hunters

Lever rifles in revolver cartridges ARE a great deal of fun, no question about that!!!! I started carrying a revolver and rifle in the same cartridge...goodness, 40 years ago. Long before it became once more popular. Started with the 357 and 44 Mag. but it wasn't long before I disposed of them and acquired original Winchester 73's and 92's in historically correct cartridges of 32-20, 38-40 and 44-40. Except for the '92 in 32-20 and a few revolvers so chambered all others have gone down the road.

With aperture sights or open sights if you do your part and the ammo is friendly with the rifle 2 inches at 50 yards should be within the realm of offhand shooting with lever rifles. For me that came neither easily nor quickly but I eventually got there. These days I'm striving for 1 inch at 50 yards with my Schuetzen rifle....and I ain't there yet.

quote:

Originally posted by sharps4590:
Lever rifles in revolver cartridges ARE a great deal of fun, no question about that!!!! I started carrying a revolver and rifle in the same cartridge...goodness, 40 years ago. Long before it became once more popular. Started with the 357 and 44 Mag. but it wasn't long before I disposed of them and acquired original Winchester 73's and 92's in historically correct cartridges of 32-20, 38-40 and 44-40. Except for the '92 in 32-20 and a few revolvers so chambered all others have gone down the road.

With aperture sights or open sights if you do your part and the ammo is friendly with the rifle 2 inches at 50 yards should be within the realm of offhand shooting with lever rifles. For me that came neither easily nor quickly but I eventually got there. These days I'm striving for 1 inch at 50 yards with my Schuetzen rifle....and I ain't there yet.

Wow, so my grouping of 4" at 25 yards I am way off the mark...

We sadly cannot have handguns ( apart from cap and ball black powder revolvers or long barreled pistols with ugly extensions to bring them up to 24" minimum length ) but I can see the appeal of the rifle and pistol sharing the same cartridge.

I am half tempted by the 45 long colt instead of the 44 mag for just the reasons you give...

The club I shoot at, if anyone is interested.

http://www.hprpc.co.uk/

These rifles are a lot of fun, I have Marlins and Rossi's in 45 and 44 mag and shoot them often. Rossi 92 is hard to beat for the price

Ghubert, those groups I mentioned did not come quickly or easily and you're right, standing on your hind legs and open sights is light years different from benched and scoped. 40 years of me shooting flintlocks I am certain is a considerable help as is having my own range about 50 yards from my back door. I shoot a lot. It's still the same 3 things, however. Sight picture, breath control and trigger control except that it is at a very much heightened level. One should probably add that follow through is a lot more important when shooting offhand. Well, maybe not more important but certainly if one doesn't follow through the results are much more dramatic.

The 45 Colt was never chambered in any of the original lever rifles so technically it isn't historically correct in them. There's obviously no reason it couldn't have been and from this time and distance it seems odd that it wasn't so chambered, at least to me. No one seems to know why it wasn't chambered in lever rifles back then. It's certainly a fine cartridge and my favorite big bore for revolvers.

The 44-40 is a good cartridge as is the 38-40 and both are historically correct. My fondness is for the 32-20. I have no knowledge of how difficult or easy reloading components are to come by in your country so none of those cartridges may make sense for you. If a fella casts bullets any of the above cartridges are no problem here and once brass is acquired I would suspect the same true in the UK.

Whichever way you decide to go you already have the answer, they are a heck of a lot of fun!!!!

You being in the UK might find it interesting that one of my recent "favorite" rifles is a Jeffrey Rook rifle. I am quite convinced it is Jeffrey's "Champion" model which evidently was their top of the line Rook rifle. The exterior of the rifle is quite good given its age and the use it's had but the bore was a sewer pipe. Sometime in the distant past it had been re-chambered from the original 255 Jeffrey to 25-20 WCF. If it was to be shot it desperately needed re-lined and I really wanted to go back to the original Jeffrey cartridge but that was simply cost prohibitive. Consequently it ended up being relined back to 25-20 and I've worked up a 255 Jeffrey equivalent load. What a SWEET little rifle!!!!!

I have lever guns in pistol calibers in 38/357mag, 44mag/spec, 32-20, 480Ruger and 22 rimfire. I also like shooting my custom built revolving carbine in 44-40. All are lots of fun at the range.

I have several, a marlin 1894 in 44 mag., a Uberti 1866 in 44-40 and a Winchester deluxe takedown by Turnbull in a 92, also in 44-40. I shoot at least one of them in Cowboy Action shooting every weekend there is no snow.

Just buy an earlier Marlin in .357. I bought mine with my compensation money 20 years ago. They are great at up to 200 yards with reloads at Bisley. I was a member of Ham & Petersham 30+ years back.

The 45 Colt Rossi Model 92 is one of the favorites in my household. The wife loves shooting it with the mild cowboy loads. I enjoy it as well. I regularly hit the 24"x24" steel plates at 300 yards with my carbine. I have hit steel plates as far as 500 yards with the open sights on my Model R-92 20" carbine. It's pretty darn accurate.

Just for giggles, I'm in the process of building a .357 Max takedown on a Marlin 336. Should be able to shoot Max, Mag and 38 spl. The first barrel is my own 30-357 DGW, which is the 357 Max necked down to 30 cal. in the re-chambered original barrel. Shoots everything from 90g to 168g. Lots of fun!

the originals weren't chambered In 45 colt because the rims were too small to effectively work in the lever guns.
the rim diameter got changed sometime later making it feasible.

I'd go with whichever caliber you have best access too.

I have identical rifles in several calibers and some of those rifles have twins.
I seem to reach for my 44 mag rossi model 92 the most[I have a browning and a model 94 also] and one of the 45 colts second most.
I prefer the 24" octagon barrels.
once you get used to shooting them hitting a 1" dot at 25yds is doable shot after shot but is challenging and easy to miss if your not paying attention 100%.

I also like shooting pistol calibred lever rifles. These 2 are 4 digit serial numbers (made in 1892) chambered 38WCF, and were purchased by the prisons service.



It is showing promise with 50m groups nice and aligned although the vertical stringing is my 60+ eyes, I'm sure!

Thanks for the advice and encouragement chaps, I am slowly getting better.



Now to see if I can shrink those groups to a neat little cluster.

Breathe, hold, squeeze...

We shoot weekly steel challenge matches spring, summer, and fall. The last couple of years we have added a 'pistol' cal. lever rifle class and it is serious fun. Lots of Win. '73 repros, Marlins, Browning B92's etc. show up. I shoot my Winchester M53 .25-20 with cast bullets and it works well. It isn't really a pistol cal. but no one cares. The cowboy action shooters are amazingly fast with their 73's.
C.G.B.

Easter 2016 - Cowboy speed rifle; I watched a young fellow win with a short stroked '73 1.92 seconds for 10 shots!

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
The club I shoot at, if anyone is interested.

http://www.hprpc.co.uk/

Ghubert:

I did look at your club's web page on the net. I was impressed by two things.

The first was the dedication of the shooters to their sport in what I would describe as a repressive and limited environment. I live in agricultural area and have literally shot a whitetail deer out my front door. I also think I could manage your 100 target at 300 yards on the right day with one of bolt actions.(cal. 7mm-08)

The second thing that was impressive was the level of interest demonstrated by the number of shooters attending and by effort required to become one.

I would go with .44 Rem. Magnum as it is a more modern cartridge design. The .45 LC is a former black powder cartridge. A number of companies build single and double action revolvers for .44RM and rifles. You can also purchase .44 Special ammo to mitigate recoil.

Do your rules allow for black powder cartridges in pistols?

Dave

Shooting off hand has become a lost art among todays hunters and that's a shame..If one can shoot off hand, he can shoot under any conditions...

I love shooting granddads old mod. 92 Win. It was his ranger rifle. Serial number 153 and shoots 2.5 inches average at 100 yards, 38-40 cal. I like the 180 gr. Hawk bullets at 2100 FPS. Its a deer killer at close range up to perhaps 100 yards..Longest shot on deer or Pronghorn Ive made with it is maybe this side of 45 yards, most at around 25 or 30 yards.

Start shooting at 100 yards with these old Win rounds in your 38-40 and 44-40 as Ive said before they work Ok at 50 yards and are claimed to be 100 yard deer rifles..Shooting at 100 yards certainly tuned up my tracking skills, enogh so that I always got real close.

My favorite lever action rifle is my Great Grandpa's Marlin model 1889 .38-40 that was made in 1892 that I inherited.

I shot it in a couple of SASS matches and the old rifle shot great. I didn't even try it out before the match and the sights hadn't been touched since before Great Granpa had his stroke in the late 1930's. They probably hadn't been touched since right after he bought the gun new back in 1892.

I loaded up some rounds using American Pioneer Powder FFg for it. I used a little foam rubber backer rod filler to take up some space for a milder load in order to take it easy on the old girl just in case but she did just fine.

Everyone in the family and friends love shooting the 3rd from the left, Winchester 38-40.

quote:

Originally posted by DMCI*:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
The club I shoot at, if anyone is interested.

http://www.hprpc.co.uk/

Ghubert:

I did look at your club's web page on the net. I was impressed by two things.

The first was the dedication of the shooters to their sport in what I would describe as a repressive and limited environment. I live in agricultural area and have literally shot a whitetail deer out my front door. I also think I could manage your 100 target at 300 yards on the right day with one of bolt actions.(cal. 7mm-08)

The second thing that was impressive was the level of interest demonstrated by the number of shooters attending and by effort required to become one.

I would go with .44 Rem. Magnum as it is a more modern cartridge design. The .45 LC is a former black powder cartridge. A number of companies build single and double action revolvers for .44RM and rifles. You can also purchase .44 Special ammo to mitigate recoil.

Do your rules allow for black powder cartridges in pistols?

Dave

Hi Dave,

thank you for your kind words and what I am taking as a challenge to a shoot-off!

We are a beleaguered species in the UK but I think that makes for more dedicated and enthusiastic gun owners once you've jumped through the hoops.

I am mainly a hunter but practice is good for everybody.

We can only have muzzle loading pistols, whether BP or nitro, so no cartridge pistols unless they are something called "Long Barrelled pistols" that don't fall foul of the minimum size rule.

What that means is that handguns are not specifically banned in the UK, merely firearms with a barrel less than 12" and over all length of less than 24".

This leads to oddities like this: http://www.ukpsa.co.uk/disciplines.html

I don't know if you ever come to the UK but by all means drop me a line if you are around the London area and I'll take you along to the club.

That last is an open offer chaps.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Shooting off hand has become a lost art among todays hunters and that's a shame..If one can shoot off hand, he can shoot under any conditions...

I love shooting granddads old mod. 92 Win. It was his ranger rifle. Serial number 153 and shoots 2.5 inches average at 100 yards, 38-40 cal. I like the 180 gr. Hawk bullets at 2100 FPS. Its a deer killer at close range up to perhaps 100 yards..Longest shot on deer or Pronghorn Ive made with it is maybe this side of 45 yards, most at around 25 or 30 yards.

I will take a rest if I possibly can, to do otherwise is unsportsmanlike, but I do agree that a hunter ought to be able to shoot off hand if circumstances dictate.

I would love a historic rifle in a historic calibre like that but with our laws proving a specific need is a bit more effort than it's worth sadly.

quote:

Originally posted by Rook49:
My favorite lever action rifle is my Great Grandpa's Marlin model 1889 .38-40 that was made in 1892 that I inherited.

I shot it in a couple of SASS matches and the old rifle shot great. I didn't even try it out before the match and the sights hadn't been touched since before Great Granpa had his stroke in the late 1930's. They probably hadn't been touched since right after he bought the gun new back in 1892.

I loaded up some rounds using American Pioneer Powder FFg for it. I used a little foam rubber backer rod filler to take up some space for a milder load in order to take it easy on the old girl just in case but she did just fine.

that is so cool, I wish I had my great grandpa's rifle...

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
Everyone in the family and friends love shooting the 3rd from the left, Winchester 38-40.

nice shooting irons mate, I'd take any of them!

I end every bench rest session, or sight it session with about 5 to 10 off hand shots, have for years and its paid big time benefits such as my 38" Mule deer with my 25-35 and iron sights...plus a few other off hand window of opertunity, not a TV show type hunt, step off your horse with rifle in hand and make a 75 to a 100 yard running shot, or slipping through the black timber and get a going south shot on a monster bull elk. You can't wait for the perfect shot..Your not on Saturday morning huntcom TV...