Over the last year or so there has been some discussion here on the tight chambers in the new Winchester/Browning leverguns,i.e. 1895,1886.
A friend had a 95 blow up on him because of the combination of untrimmed brass,heavy(long)bullet and tight chamber. Today we were talking and he is loading a 425 gr Leadhead bullet in his Marlin 45-70. It shoots very well and so he tried it in his new 1886 lightweight. It won't chamber.

Dr. Duc
My first thought is your buddy is a sloppy reloader. Sounds like he needs to back up to Reloading 101 and follow each step and double check each step of the process.
I'll take a representive number of each batch of reloads, test the case for fitting in the chamber after resizing, needs to be a light finger push. The once the cartridge is fully loaded it needs to drop into the chamber of it's own weight and fall out when the muzzle is elevated. This is the process that works for my 1886 and two 95s.
Jim

Dr Duc,

As Arky suggested your buddy might want to check his reloading processes in case something is amiss.

I have a Browning 1886 SRC in 45/70 and while not a Winchester Lightweight, it comes from the same stable (in Japan). On mine the chamber had little to no throat, whereas my Marlin is more accommodating. The chamber on my Browning is fine. If this is the problem he would benefit from some relieving the throat somewhat.

Joe

He is in fact a very careful reloader. He is one of the most organized and particular I know. I know of only one I would put with him and he died 4 years ago. He was a military armorer(Special Forces) and armorer for 2 PD's. His civilian job necessitates extreme care in what he does and it holds true for his reloading. He may have had a momentary lapse about the trimming of new brass once but you won't find him making the same mistake again.
He made this observation in conversation not because he was trying to shoot something that wouldn't fit without a hammer. He didn't have to have another Winchester blow up to prove a point.
I posted the incident of the KB 1895 2 years ago. It took awhile but he figured out what caused it and Winchester did replace the rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Duc:
He is in fact a very careful reloader. [QUOTE]


Just thinking out aloud here, not critizing at all. Careful is one thing and experence/knowledge something else.

[QUOTE]
He may have had a momentary lapse about the trimming of new brass once but you won't find him making the same mistake again. [QUOTE]


I'd be supprised if NEW brass would be so long as able to blow up a new rifle.


[QUOTE]
He made this observation in conversation not because he was trying to shoot something that wouldn't fit without a hammer.[QUOTE]


I'd also be supprised if any cartridge that chambered in a lever action, was "tight" enough to blow her up.


[QUOTE]
It took awhile but he figured out what caused it and Winchester did replace the rifle.

I'm just wondering if he "figured" correctly or did he actually prove it to himself. IE. Were the cases that long that they were jammed against the end of the chamber? In reasonable pressure handloads a bullet loaded long shouldn't blow a new rifle up either.

I also doubt the Win chamber is TOO tight, if a factory round fits in OK. The fact that a reload fits in one chamber and not another is rather normal not unusual at all.

EG. I've "carefully" loaded some FLSized 30-30
rounds only to discover they wouldn't fit the chamber. If I'd gotten them in, there wouldn't have been a pressure problem though, as I only had a little bulge from crimping too hard.

So, I'm only hopeing your friend hasn't overlooked another problem he may have had.

JAL.
You are confusing 2 separate incidents. In the original KA-Boom he was firing once fired amd reloaded, untrimmed brass. In retrospect when he chambered the round he remembered a little resistance but the round chambered without real difficulty. One round fired without incident and the next blew the rifle up. All scenarios were explored and the consensus was that the
untrimmed brass plus a tight chamber gave a round jammed into the rifling which resulted in a severe overpressure load. Winchester accepted this scenario and replaced the rifle even though it may not have been technically their "fault".
I didn't post this to get into a pissing contest-just a word to the wise that new Winchester chambers may be tight and don't load into the lands.

You can probably find the original thread under "Winchester 1895 Ka Boom". Look about 2 years ago.

Very sorry Doc. I thought the incident/s may have been open for discussion.

So just hypotheticaly, anyone else, who knows how much room for error is there in max case length to min chamber Length. A friend of mine measured up his chamber reamer and mentioned about 20thou.
Now that's some case stretch to get with one reload.
Today I found someone elses reloaded case 8thou over Max. so I belled the neck out and chambered it in my rifle (a Win) and it didn't squeese the neck at all.

Re loading into the lands. Someone must have done some tests as to how much increase in pressure there is, but with my hand loads I would be quite happy to stick a bullet out to jam into the lands and fire it.
It's called a margin of error I guess, which we all should hope to have with our reloads.

Tight chambers wouldn't worry me in the slightest. Same reason as above. If we are counting on some unusual case expansion to keep our loads under blow-ups, we maybe shouldn't be reloading.
I get a bit "funny" when various theorys are put up as fact, when the real cause may remain undetected.
No pissing contest boys, just reloading discussions. Me perfect?? not just yet.

Someone on this board calculated that a normally acceptable load if pushed into the lands .005 would result in a pressure of 85,000psi.

If so Doc, one wouldn't need a tight chamber to blow a rifle up. Maybe your mate was lucky Winchester didn't tell him to toddle off.

I eventually found Dr.Duc's post under
405 Winchester Ka-Boom (in Big Bores) 16-11-02.

Quite interesting, but apparently no definate
cause proven, and the supposed facts changing
as happens over time.

Anyway tight chamber or not, lets be careful fellas.
And it's not just handloaders, here Win had a recall out on some .22 RF mags. Reckoned some may have been double charged. Wonder how they managed that??

Check a few chambers for yourself.
They are generally .030 to .040 longer than the maximum for the cartridge. When fired a case will usually get shorter. They get longer when resized after being stretched diametrally by firing.
If he put a too long case back into the chamber it was his fault not Winchester. I can understand why a factory should never warrant a firearm fired with reloads. There are too many reloading out there that do not understand enough to take responsibility for their mistakes.

Sure, but I'd a thought if someone could concoct
a load that was "reasonable" IE correct powder,under max, suitable projectile, and they could chamber the thing, I'd of thought a rifle should be strong enough to survive a minor misshap.
Some people have great trouble trying to blow rifles up on purpose.
I've got the impression the 95 action is a bit suspect, so I'll give 'em a miss just in case.

Dr. Duc,

I to shoot the 425gr. Leadhead & I do have a Marlin 1895 CB and two of the new Miroku 86 Winchesters. The Marlin has a short leade while the Winchesters have none. Rounds that chamber in the Marlin will barely close in the 86's.

Bloody Hell.
Don't we all know that our handloads are usually tailored for a particular rifle?

The exception being where a cartridge is needed to fit in all standard chambers, like factory rounds.

So, Rooster, what's your point. Are the Win. chambers under spec or not. If they fit all and sundry factory rounds, your handloads for the Marlins are THE PROBLEM.
Does anyone have some FACTS here??