I was wondering what level is considered safe in the 1895 rifle in .45/70? Hodgdon appears to be maxing out their "lever-action" loads at around 40,000 CUP---is that consistent with what you have experienced?
"Archery enshrines the principles of human relationships. The Archer perfects his form within himself. If his form is perfect, yet when he releases he misses, there is no point in resenting those who have done better than him. The fault lies nowhere."(Confucious)
Posts: 115 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 05 January 2005
I personally would not run them that hot. I never run my lever guns at the max...just too much bad juju that can happen. Just a round with a tighter crimp can cause a blow up when max charges are used. I think I read somewhere that staying around 36,000 CUP was a smart thing to do, and I would consider that "safe". Besides, heavy loads in a Marlin ain't fun.
Posts: 4115 | Location: Pa. | Registered: 21 April 2006
The "lever action" loads are indeed intended for the modern Marlin 1895 and the Winchester 1886. Like Woodrow suggests max loads using such data are not a lot of fun fired from the lighter Marlin, especially if you haven't installed or upgraded the recoil pad.
Shooting out an 1895 SBL with a nice recoil pad on it and recoil really doesn't concern me that much in the first place. I just don't want to blow the rifle up.
Hodgdon lists a 400 gr. Speer JFP at 2002 FPS with 50.5 grs. of H4198. This load is supposed be be at about 39,400 CUP and sounds like a good one for me.
"Archery enshrines the principles of human relationships. The Archer perfects his form within himself. If his form is perfect, yet when he releases he misses, there is no point in resenting those who have done better than him. The fault lies nowhere."(Confucious)
Posts: 115 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 05 January 2005
Originally posted by 31/2Makesmelaugh: Hodgdon lists a 400 gr. Speer JFP at 2002 FPS with 50.5 grs. of H4198. This load is supposed be be at about 39,400 CUP...
Your SBL is one of the two 1895s that come out of the box with a good pad. Most of my work with my Guide Gun "Mjolnir" has been factory level 300 and 405 gr bullets (and cast 300, 250, and 400s at trapdoor speeds) but I was much happier once I replaced the recycled truck tire Marlin puts on their other Guide Guns. I've read the 400 gr Speer is on the soft side. If true I'd be careful what I ran it into at 2000 fps.
Originally posted by nordrseta: [. Most of my work with my Guide Gun "Mjolnir" has been factory level 300 and 405 gr bullets I've read the 400 gr Speer is on the soft side. If true I'd be careful what I ran it into at 2000 fps.
I assume "Mjolnir" is Swedish...what does it mean? I am shooting whitetails anyways so the softness of the bullet doesn't worry me too much...
"Archery enshrines the principles of human relationships. The Archer perfects his form within himself. If his form is perfect, yet when he releases he misses, there is no point in resenting those who have done better than him. The fault lies nowhere."(Confucious)
Posts: 115 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 05 January 2005
Originally posted by 31/2Makesmelaugh: I assume "Mjolnir" is Swedish...what does it mean?
I don't which Scandinavian dialect it comes from originally but Mjölnir is the name of Thor's hammer. Seemed an apt title so I had it engraved on the left flat of my Guide Gun's receiver.
http://www.ragweedforge.com/ThorsHammer.html Here's a source of various pins and pendants of Thor's hammer . The 45-70 does well on many things with factory type loads and those are loaded IIRC to about 18,000 .40,000 will bit on both ends.Higher velocity should use better bullets also such as the 300 gr Nosler or Barnes.
Originally posted by Woodrow S: I personally would not run them that hot. I never run my lever guns at the max...just too much bad juju that can happen. Just a round with a tighter crimp can cause a blow up when max charges are used. I think I read somewhere that staying around 36,000 CUP was a smart thing to do, and I would consider that "safe". Besides, heavy loads in a Marlin ain't fun.
I personally have run them that hot for at least 15 years without any ill effects. For some reason some people think that the Marlin 1895 45-70 will somehow fall apart from using loads at its safe operating pressure. For 30 years the literature has confirmed the safe operating pressure of the Marlin 1895 45-70 to be 40,000 CUP. Safe operating pressure means a given platform can take a steady diet of such loads for the service life of the firearm. The firearm is able to continually withstand the stress provided by such loads and return to stasis. Any concern about load variations, such as different primers or crimps, are valid for the 444 Marlin and 450 Marlin as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Marlin: .450 Marlin SAAMI avg pressure is 43000psi.
There is no reason a .45-70 could not be loaded to the same pressure.... other than as stated above, they aren't much fun.
Actually the SAAMI pressure specification for the 450 Marlin is 43,500 PSI. In addition, the Marlin 1895 45-70 should not be loaded to the same pressure as the Marlin 1895 450 Marlin. They are different cartridges that achieve virtually the same results in the Marlin lever gun. The 450 Marlin requires a higher pressure to achieve the same ballistics as the 45-70 because it has less case capacity. Further, the 450 Marlin has less cross-sectional area interfacing the bolt producing equivalent bolt thrust with more pressure than the 45-70. So, while the 450 Marlin can be loaded to 43,500 PSI in the Marlin lever gun, the 45-70 achieves similar results loaded to 40,000 CUP or approximately 42,732 PSI.
You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not.
Posts: 1080 | Location: Western Wisconsin | Registered: 21 May 2002
For what its worth, you can still get a lot out of the 45-70 staying within SAAMI specs. Look at the same Hodgdon manual using H4895 and SPEER 400g bullets.
Originally posted by Rusty Marlin: .450 Marlin SAAMI avg pressure is 43000psi.
There is no reason a .45-70 could not be loaded to the same pressure....
If you read Hornady's Reloading Manual and the history of the .450 Marlin, you will learn the brass used for the .450 was selected because it is signifigently stronger than the .45/70 brass. They specifically mention the .450 Marlin is capable of higher pressures due to the brasseven when fired from the same action as the .45/70 The choice of a rimmed cartridge was to prevent the .450 from being used in older or weaker .45/70 actions. Do not presume that the .45/70 can be loaded to the same pressures as the .450 Marlin in the Marlin Lever guns. You will be very wrong.
If your hunting dog is fat, then you aren't getting enough exercise.
Posts: 598 | Location: currently N 34.41 W 111.54 | Registered: 10 February 2007
Originally posted by dpcd: I don't want to quibble but I have been loading 45-70 brass in a Ruger #1 and a Siamese Mauser up to 50Kpsi since 1974. (And in the Ruger, it HURTS on both ends) Elmer Kieth ("Hell, I Was There" should be required reading.) said he wanted his rifles to kill on both ends. Modern 45-70 brass is plenty strong; section one and compare it to any other brass. As for the Marlin, you usually run out of shoulder (human, I mean), before you run out of action strength. Marlins are incredibly strong. The only thing that I am suspect of is the thin chamber wall under the barrel threads, but again, with modern 4140 steel, it is plenty strong as well. Actually, the 450 brass was developed with a longer than normal belt so that they won't chamber in a 300 Mag or chambers of that ilk. Now, that would develop excessive pressure, although I have not tried it. And, finally, 40K PSI in a Marlin from a 45-70 has been very safe for me since Marlin re-introduced the M95 in 1973. I have 3 of them.
The Marlin action is not strong enough to handle the pressure that the Ruger #1 can in 45-70. Look at www.Leverguns.com and go to the articles section. Paco Kelly has an article entitled "45-70 IN LEVERGUNS" that does a great job discussing the four power levels in 45-70.
steve nelson
Posts: 148 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 16 February 2008
Originally posted by dpcd: I didn't mean to mislead anyone; I was referring to the comment about the BRASS not being able to take 50K PSI. I only load Marlins to 40K.
dpcd: I figured you knew what you meant. I just didn't want somebody to read that too fast and decide to load a Marlin to 50K PSI. That could be very dangersous. Thanks for clarifying your response.
I live in Iowa too. I'm curious, what are "Peabody Rifles"?
steve nelson
Posts: 148 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 16 February 2008
Originally posted by dpcd: Peabody rifles, are single shot breech loaders made in the 1870s, and we are making them again. Visit my web site at www.peabodyrifles.com and you will see. I am in Davenport.
Nice looking rifles. What pressure levels do they handle in 45-70? The Lyman 21 sight looks very nice as well. I am located in the northwest corner of the state.
steve nelson
Posts: 148 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 16 February 2008
Originally posted by dpcd: I didn't mean to mislead anyone; I was referring to the comment about the BRASS not being able to take 50K PSI. I only load Marlins to 40K.
I knew what you were saying. Winchester 45-70 brass has been tested to 70,000 psi without failure. Hence, the strength of the brass between the 450 Marlin and the 45-70 is of no consequence in Marlin lever guns where the rifle action is the limiting factor.
You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not.
Posts: 1080 | Location: Western Wisconsin | Registered: 21 May 2002
