Searching for factory hunting ammunition for use in my Savage 99E Carbine in 308 Win, S/N A1278XX, I bought (1) box each of Federal Premium (165gr Trophy Bonded), Federal Premium Fusion(165gr Bonded) and Hornady Superformance(165gr SST) for chrono and accuracy testing.

All were acceptably accurate, but the effort required to open the action varied considerably between the three loadings. Specifically, very little effort was required with the Federal Premium TB, a moderate amount with Federal Fusion, and more effort than I'd like with the Hornady Superformance. (This would be analogous to the experience of those pushing the limits in bolt guns and dealing with "clickers")

The results brought to mind cautions I'd read over the years about receiver stretch in rear-locking actions, and 99s in particular. I expected that this subject had already been addressed on AR, but could find nothing similar using the "Find" function, and so decided to post on this forum.

Hypothesizing that the fastest results would also show fired cases that exhibited the most case stretch, I measured headspace of the (5) fired cases from each of the above loadings. Fired case headspace was measured using an indicator stand in conjunction with a .4000" datum block. The .0005" dial indicator was set at "0" with a 308 Win "GO" gauge. Fired cases were then placed in the indicator stand and their deviations from "0" headspace noted.

Results show progressively more case headspace as velocity goes up, indicating (to me, at least, that the receiver stretched to allow the case stretch). This isn't a statistically significant test, but seems to confirm that my Savage 99E receiver stretches during firing, and in direct relationship to velocities realized from different factory 308 loadings.

Results @ 71* F, 20" BBL:
Factory Load FPS ES/SD Fired Case Headspace

F/C TB 2536 36/15.7 +.003"

F/C Fusion 2600 20/8.7 +.004"

Hrndy Superf 2744! 16/7.8 +.005"/.0055"

For me, this eliminated Hornady Superformance for use in my 99. The other two loads exhibit good velocity, with sufficient accuracy to get the job done.

Hope this was interesting to all.

Dave Manson

This is good tech data, Dave. I have had years of good luck with the Browning designed Winchester pre-war Model 71s and the late smokeless 86 rifles
in 33 WCF. I do make a point to hover around
factory pressures and velocities as pressure signs
in rear-locking lever guns are not always present as in bolt guns.

The Model 71 is probably one of the strongest and most
forgiving of Winchester's lever-action rifles,
and that is important. Even have an early 450 Alaskan, but the cautions still apply.

My 1952 99 EG in 250-3000 has shown no offending stretching to date, but I am still careful. Its 87 gr bullets will reach the 3000 fps mark, but heavier bullets cannot be pushed
too fast.

Thank you for sharing the information.

This only happens on the 308 caliber 99s and to a lesser extent the 243 and 284; only because those are less common. I was always suspect of why Savage chambered the 99 in those modern high pressure calibers.
You are not the first to notice this happening. Solution is to hand load to a somewhat less pressure level; and the problem will go away.
That 1895 frame was not designed for 60K psi ammo.
As for the 71/86; those cartridges are not in any way in the same pressure category.
And neither is the 250-3000, a 45K psi thing.
It was a marginal combination.

Thanks all for your comments. As Tom stated, the obvious solution is to handload to pressure levels that allow the action to be opened without resistance. Never encountered this in my 358 Win, but I worked up loads for it and never used factory.

"But the barrel reads, 'Hi-Pressure Steel'; surely the maker wouldn't push it too far."

Dave Manson

Savage changed he metal and design with the additiion of the 308,243,284 and 358 according to Savage and published not to rebore or rebarrel prior guns to those calibers..

I can and have shot many rounds at 60,000 PSI over the years and have had trouble with sticky extraction and a couple of head separations with brass at the 4th or 5th reloadings..

In my later years and a loss of testosterone I suggest one follow my lead and load to 2 grs under book max for trouble free operation, accuracy and very little velocity loss..My all time favorite load is a 150 grl bullet and 48.5 grs. of 748...Some of the new stuff like CFE-223, H414, get you max velocity and seem to work real well and show no pressure over book max a good deal, but start low and work up and be just a tad behind the 30-06 in my extensive testing over the years, but my hunting load is still 48.5 of 748..Reloading does not seem to streach the action and I've not had to deal with that until I get way beyond book max. I can go way over book max with H414 but don't chose to do so..I do find certain powders work in that action and others don't regardless of bookloads...My post is a generalization of 60 years of playing with the 99 in my early 308s. By far the best 99 is the 1950s fwt.

The best tip I know about a 99 is when you shot it and feel the lever lightly drop in your grip, its time to drop a grain and perhaps two because its talking to you, if the load is too hot it will do that every time..as will some Winchesters,

The best factory loads I ever found in 308 for my 99’s was the older Federal ammo with the 165 TBBC.

Never a sticky opening and great accuracy and a hammer on game.

So, Dave, you are one of the blessed with a 99 in .358, eh?

Ray: thanks for a good rule-of-thumb and tried-and-true 308 loads. Hasher: likewise, thanks for factory ammo recommendation.

Bill: yes, the 358 likely won't be sold in my lifetime. At one time I was collecting what I think of as "parallel lever actions", that is Savage 99s and Winchester 88s, and had a 358 Win in the 88. Though very accurate, I never cared for the 88s as much as the 99s. All of the 88s are gone now, with really no regrets other than not owning one sample of a unique design.

Dave Manson

BTW I always full length resize Winchesters and Savage 99s for proper feeding of hunting loads and extraction..brass lasts from 5 reloadings to 10 or more depending on loads..That said, I usually toss the brass at 5 and buy new stuff as its cheap enough, and I always use new WW brass for hunting loads or factory..

As to your testing, I might add, the same results would be found in any bolt action. Also the firing of factory ammo in any action is, in fact, a fireforming process to YOUR chamber..Your .005 is considered max but acceptable by most according to all I've read,but many experienced reloaders use that when it correlates to additional pressure indications.

I have a 1895 in 303 savage and a 99 Takedown in 250 3000. Any interest out there? The 1895 was made in 1897. The 99 was made in 1915. My neighbor left them with me when he moved.

Your guns have a good deal of value, depending on condition..

In my 89 years of collecting and hunting with the 99 Savages I have never ran into a case of headspace or serious brass stretching although I have had to full length resize to chamber a fired round at times and even seperated a head on ocassioin with too much powder!! that bolt drops out of lock up with too hot a load is my opine based on guess what? Interested on opinnions on this subject.

The day I was born the sun didn't shine.
I picked up my ammo and the ol' 99 ...

We heard what you said, Ray, but know what you mean

I wish I knew one per cent of what you do about the Savage. I wanted to buy one in 358 Win 40 years ago but they were not available, "even for ready money".

Happy Christmas, by the way!

Sambarman, a Merry Christmas to you and yours..

BTW those 99s in 358 are still out there but still higher than a cats back! 284s, 250s, 358s are the investment guns in the 1950s 99F.

Thanks Ray, and all the best to you and all the Atkinsons for the coming year

I fired a round of South African military 7.62x51mm in my Savage Model 99A (Modern) .308 once. The fired case would not extract.

Normal factory hunting and match loads work fine in that rifle, and it feeds, extracts and ejects reliably and shoots accurately.

I will stay away from Hornady Superformance (as I have stayed away from South African military loads).

Thanks.

Im experirnce with 99s has only been with WW,RP,PPU, starline, some PMP which I liked best as it last forever..