The Winchester Model 71, the Golden Jubilee continuation of the Model 1886-was and is probably the finest extended version of John Browning's best lever action design. The 450 and 50 Alaskans were test
bedded on the 1886-Model 71. No smoother rifle was ever made.

(More to follow)

Why the heck did Winchester go to the short tang? I have two of them and a long. I mostly shoot the short tang deluxe, it's an original and lighter than the others which are not.

Excellent question. Someone-after approximately 16,000 long tang versions were made-decided that the comb length and position needed changing. That could have been done a little- while keeping the original.
BUT-Winchester did not stop there-put both styles on half cock-now wiggle the short tang rifle trigger-see it move-WHY? Someone fixed something that was not broken. The LTang remains fixed like the 1886.

I have 3 wildcats-two 450s and a 348 A Imp. They all work.
Of my 5 M-71s -Four are pre-war long tang 71s
and two are Deluxe versions. I have killed deer, moose and most everything else in NM-AZ and Alaska with a Model 71. The 348 Ackley is a 35 Whelen on a heavy lever action base. It will kill
anything in North America while adding at least 175 FPS to all bullet weights. One shot moose gun.

The 450 Alaskan and 450 Fuller came out of Harold Johnson's JKR shop at Cooper Landing, AK in the 1950s. The "50" as he called it will thump big bears. My 450 Alaskan and 450 Fuller are long tang early rifles and they are accurate with 400 gr FP jacketed or cast bullets.
The heavy 450s are really for serious bear medicine. Sometimes you need to STOP a bear-then finish him. Johnson was right about that. I
have a homestead in Alaska-you never know what is around the trail. Hosea Sarber, a respected AK
game warden-disappeared and was never found on a trip. He was carrying a 270 WCF rifle. A 270 is a bit light for AK use-but who knows what happened to him.

The Winchester Model 71 pre-war rifle is arguably the finest lever action Winchester ever made.
If you have brass-ammo/hang on to it-its getting pricey.
If you need wildcat brass-I have some available.

quote:

Hosea Sarber, a respected AKgame warden-disappeared and was never found on a trip. He was carrying a 270 WCF rifle. A 270 is a bit light for AK use-but who knows what happened to him.

And the point of mentioning what caliber rifle he was carrying when one does not know what happened.

When one is out and about in the bush there are many ways to die and disappear.

That could have nothing do too with the rifle he carried.

I have three of the long tang models,one is unmolested,2nd is 348 Ackley & the third I had re-barrelled to a 348/416 improved,love these guns,I dream of Alaska,one day I will take a grizzly with one of these guns.

J. Kronfeld wrote a good series of articles for Rifle-Handloader mag some years ago on the 348 wildcats. He favored the 450s and 348 AckImp-because of bullets and his own thorough test results.

As Keith and other AK guides have stated, you can only carry one rifle: Whatever the caliber, it needs to be able to handle the situation when it is at its worst for bullet/caliber performance.
Do you really want to depend on a 270 to stop
a charging bear? The rifle that you are carrying
turns out to be your "bear rifle" in Alaska and Canada. I prefer the 338-348-358-375 up to 458
calibers. The old timers tended to NOT carry anything smaller than the 30-06. The 30-06 will do the job, but I prefer the 348 WCF or larger.

As to Hosea Rollo Sarber, witnesses said that he walked off alone carrying a light caliber rifle, others said they were'nt sure if he had any rifle.
He did not come back to defend his actions or even what happened to him. He did track down and kill
a man killing grizzly that had been lightly wounded in the 1950s. He killed it with a 375 H&H.
My guess is that few reading these posts have gone down trails in Alaska-by themselves- carrying nothing but a pack and a rifle. Until you actually do that-and kill a deer or moose, then later have to face down bears in the real outback; you really know not whereof you speak.

B73-if you ever get tired of one of those early Model 71s-let me know.

I have several '71/'86 rifles. Two original in 348--one of which saved my bacon near Trapper Creek, AK when I got between a sow and her two cubs (only saw one). Another is a Browning repro--also in 348. A repro '71 turned into a 450 AK and a repro TD '86 in 475 Turnbull.

The repro 348 and Turnbull are the most accurate, but I'd walk into the AK bush with any of them because they're reliable, ergonomic and flat work. What I especially like about them--even the repros--is that they represent a connection between how life/hunting used to be. And yes, I wear wool and Filson.

Dave Manson

My little 50 lever gun has a medium length tang. It's about a half inch longer than the model 71 short tang.

Its amazing what the bean counters can come up with to "fix things" and the idiots that listen to them..

Dave:
Good points about wool and lever action rationale.
Wool clothing with under wicking garments will keep one warm when even wet or damp.

The advantage to the 1886/Model 71 lever actions as John Browning/Harold Johnson's favorite model was a slick action chambering serious cartridges. Fast handling timber lever actions will stop a bear before it can do damage. The 450 Alaskan was purpose-built for that very reason.

Better safe than sorry.

Never put off til tomorrow a charging bear that you can kill today. As long as its a real assault and not a bluff charge......

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Hosea Sarber, a respected AKgame warden-disappeared and was never found on a trip. He was carrying a 270 WCF rifle. A 270 is a bit light for AK use-but who knows what happened to him.

And the point of mentioning what caliber rifle he was carrying when one does not know what happened.

When one is out and about in the bush there are many ways to die and disappear.

That could have nothing do too with the rifle he carried.

Which rifle caliber likely had nothing to do with it. He was in a small boat that they found later drifting. The assumption was he likely drowned.

As much as I like the .348 win. it is and was designed to clone a 30-06 and that's what it does up to about 150 yards and that's a good thing, thus the 400 and 450 to stop bears.

I see the .270 with 150 or 160 gr. Nosler partition bullets, and the 30-06 with 180 and 200 gr. Nosler partitions a much better bear killer or stopper than the 348 Win.

I love the win. 71 rifle itself, and have shot both deer and elk with it, and one black bear. Its not the magical caliber its perceived by many, its simply a nice short range deer rifle IMO, good enough elk caliber at up to 100 or so yards. its a little weak for elk as the range extends//

Ray:

Tend to agree with you on distance shots with the 348, as one gets above 100 yards the 348 WCF sheds energy faster than a 30-06. However, with a 348 Ackley you have a whole new caliber that equals the 35 Whelen.
Rather than the 30-06, I would use my own 338-06
in an early Model 70-best of both worlds.
As to bears, I would rather have a 348 M-71 with Woodleighs or North Fork bullets-over any 30-06.
That probably includes elk under 100 yards or so.
If you are fishing along salmon/trout streams in Canada or Alaska-then a fast handling Model 71
will get the nod-

over a smaller rifle that shows only hair in the scope.
Of course, its all subjective. You pays your nickle and takes your chances....................

I can't imagine anyone thinking the 348 is a "long range cartridge". The rifles in which it's chambered are relatively fast-handling and can put a lot of lead on target when needed. I don't think ANY cartridge is magic, but the 348 works just fine.

DManson

I agree, and if all my elk were to be shot at 100 yards I would as soon have a 30-30 carbine and a 170 gr. corelokt, I mean I used a 25-35 for years growing up..In either case I would recommend broadside and preferably standing shot or slow moving shots and not much angle.

Not saying the 30-30 or 25-35 is as powerful as a 348 Win, they are not, but they'll do with proper shots.

A few folks from the Alaska Outdoors lever action portion recently ran their own fast handling comparisons. (That is M-71 lever actions vs bolt action rifles) While not a scientific test, the results were interesting. Two constants were the goal: speed and accuracy.
Four shooters were involved, with two shooting Model 71s and two with bolt guns. The Model 71s were twice as fast as the bolt rifles. They were also surprisingly more accurate. To keep the test fair and balanced, the shooters exchanged rifles. Same result as to speed of handling. A Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 was also used by these over 6 ft band of brothers. All four
had difficulty with the approximate 20 inch/less barreled Marlin 45-70 and it had the same speed of handling/cycling as the bolt rifles.

This confirms my experience, and also confirms my
observation that rifle balance plays a part in
smoother lever action cycling and ejection. A 22-24 inch barrel seems to provide enough balanced weight up front to assist in the lever cycling
operation. One of these Model 71s in the test was a 450 Alaskan. Where I have carried my Model 71
Deluxe 450 Fuller or 348 Ackley on Alaskan moose hunts, it could quickly turn into a bear hunt.

Part of the attraction of the 348 or 450 chambered Model 71 is smooth and fast enough handling for repeat shots.

As Elmer Keith and John Taylor said in the past, dangerous game really becomes dangerous as it gets close. In my opinion, that's where the fast handling Model 71 really comes into its own.

I can't say the 348 is twice as fast on repeat shots as a bolt action 30-06, if so its the shooter not the rifles..With me the 348 barely gets and edge, Finn Aaggard ran the same test and found no difference..

I also would say its a push at 100 yards between a 220 gr Nosler in the 30-06 and any load in the .348 Win as to killing power, then the 30-06 gains with every yard...

I like the feel and everything about the Win. 71 in .348 Win caliber, they are a super rifle IMO. I have found it hard to get a accurate one, as most don't shoot to my desires..If you get one that will shoot 2 inches at 100 you have a crown jewell..keep it..I let mine get away from me..

For what its worth, I found the win. 86s however mostly accurate in 45-70 and 45-90..especially the 45-90..

I have no experience with the 40 and 45 conversions but if I wanted a brown bear gun I would opt for the 450 in a mod. 71, I bet you can feel the recoil however, and recoil would slow down the return to battery..

Just my oberservations over the years, not intended for agreement or disagreement.

Some owners of the Marlin Guide Gun who recently shot the 450 Alaskan Model 71 want some changes to their Marlins.

Instead of an 18.5 short barrel, they are getting gunsmiths like Wild West Guns in Anchorage to fit a 22 in Marlin barrel to the rifle.
Straight grips are also being replaced by pistol grip butt stocks. All of these changes are being made to increase handling and balance to their rifles.

I’ve owned several Model 71’s. Three long tangs and two post-war. I’ve also owned both the standard and short rifle versions of the browning 71. I’ve handled an original pre-war short rifle, but not owned one. Both the original and browning short rifles (20” barrels) balance exactly the same as the 24” barreled versions because the 20” versions barrels weigh the same as the 24’s. Very handy!

In the 1950s I bought a used Win. 71 carbine, an original super grade 348 Win. cal. It set me back $400 to $500???...Lot of money in those days...I loved that rifle, and today it would fetch a bloody fortune..but I traded, bought and sold a lot of gun back then that would fetch a pretty penny today..I suppose most curmudgeons did.

I have owned at least 10 Winchester and Browning
Model 71 rifles. Two of my current pre-war long tang
checked Deluxe rifle are in 450 Alaskan and 450 Fuller. The Fuller came out of the JKR shop by Bill Fuller. These rifles were made to save your hide if things went South with a bear. The 50 AK I owned was not as accurate as the 450s.

My experience with long and short barrels in the Winchester- Browning supports a decided balance inequality with the 20 in barrel. It may be length and weight. The current Marlins and Winchesters
have problem tang safeties. When you are faced with an 18.5 inch barrel, straight stock, and extra safety-one may become handicapped when facing down an angry bear.

For the interior of Alaska or Canada, I think I will stick with the original 24 in barreled
Winchester Model 71.

450m
I second that notion..

Well Marlin does make the plain model 1895 with a 22 inch barrel and a pistol grip already, they have for a very long time. I do agree the longer barrel balances better.

There are ways to get around the safety on all of them Marlins, Winchesters or Brownings either by elimating it all together or fixing them in place on a Marlin by tightening the little screw in back of the receiver by first removing the butt stock. So solutions are available.

Regarding speed I can run my 18.5 inch Marlin 1895 GBL loaded hot much faster than any bolt gun can, it's all about practice.

The Winchester 1886 & 71 design is a great rifle with the added advantage of allowing longer OAL cartridges then the modern Marlin. Too bad Marlin didn't stretch them to the original model 1895 receiver length which chambered pretty all of the cartridges that Winchester did at the time.

I have not owned a 71 yet, but would like to do so. I have several 86's and marlin 1895's. They are all straight stocks and long barrels. I like the long barrels, 26 inch preferred.

I think a stainless BLR take down in 358 is as good as any 348 made.If you want to get hairy a BLR in 458 can be made easily.JMHO,OB

John Browning designed the 1886 and Oliver Winchester
thought it wise to get the model's build rights.

Ben Lilly, the famous Govt hunter who decimated the mtn lion and grizzly populations in 1903-12 in the Gila-Apache wilderness areas of NM-AZ carried an 86 in 33WCF.

Browning continued the 1886/Model 71 in the 1980s
without any dangerous "safeties".

If you carry a rifle in really serious bear areas in Alaska-Canada, like below McNeil Falls or in the spawning season in the Kenai-it needs to be reliable and powerful enough to do the job.
A US Forest Service employee was killed in 2016 by a grizzly outside the West entrance to Glacier Park, MT. He hit the bear on a blind turn while mountain biking.
Like the Alaskan guides say, the rifle you have in your hand will be your "bear rifle" when the alders shake and the chips or down.

For me-its the tough and reliable rifles made by Winchester.

For myself, I, have over the years, preferred a 26 inch barrel on any big game rifle as they hold better on running game and when your out of breath from topping a hill or chasing something to get a shot..

Recently as Ive aged I like lighter fwt. rifles, but as you age the fwt,s get heavier boys and thus they hold better than when you were young, so nothing really changes if you know what I mean, if not then one day sooner than you think, you will understand!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
For myself, I, have over the years, preferred a 26 inch barrel on any big game rifle as they hold better on running game and when your out of breath from topping a hill or chasing something to get a shot..

Recently as Ive aged I like lighter fwt. rifles, but as you age the fwt,s get heavier boys and thus they hold better than when you were young, so nothing really changes if you know what I mean, if not then one day sooner than you think, you will understand!

The marlin especially neecs the 26 inch octogon in 50 alaskan. The plastic butt plate left too and it got a decelerator. When I got the turnbull 1886, it got a heavy octogon barrel too and a shotgun butt. No way I want to shoot 50-110 +p+ in a gun with a crescent buttplate. Now, got to get one of those 71's for a 50 caliber conversion. I look at the 86/71 stocks to be like the 94/64 stocks with the pistol grips being faster to cycle and easier to shoot at the shoulder. The straight ones do, for me anyway, decrease felt recoil.