I am finally through tweaking the Woodleigh 400 grain .411 bullet load combinations and am ready for practice shooting at Cape Buffalo targets before leaving for RSA May 27!

Yesterday afternoon at the Krodle Kountry Range, Joe and Ricky helped me chronograph and accuracy test what were to be the last two load combinations whose only difference was standard and magnum large Federal Match rifle primers. Serendiptity! The mag primer load is in-the- zone in velocity and accuracy.

The last four mag primer rounds were recorded at ERROR (bullet path too low between screens), 2068, 2069, and 2068 fps with the chrony 10 feet from the muzzle. With or without correction, this is just over the 450/400 velocities claimed by Hornady( http://www.hornady.com/store/450-400-Nitro-Express-3/

) for their factory loads. With correction from screens to muzzle, it is equal to the reference loads(corrected to 2076) from the Wolfe Load data site.

These loads are also accurate; with the front bead covering the 8" bull at 100 yards, they are all in the black. So with no physical sight adjustments, the 400 grain sight picture of bead-on-target and the 300 grain picture of 6 o'clock (factory and handloads print an inch above top of bead at 100 yards) allow me to use either load as appropriate without physically adjusting the sights. More serendipity.

I then fired two series of three fast shots from a tripod at 50 yards and they were all in the eight inch black bull. Now I can just go shooting with this load and practice, practice, practice, to be ready to pop a buffalo in RSA.

Sounds like you are all set...preparing can be almost as fun as going. Remember I said almost!

Good luck and be sure and fill us in when you get home!

cr
That sounds plenty good.

Did you make any modifications to your 1895 to get it where it would function and shoot those loads.

What powder charge did you finally settle on.

Did you trim back your barss so you could crimp in the Woodleigh crimp groove.
Are you shooting Woodleigh Softs and/or Solids?

A buffalo with a Winch 95 405 caliber!
Yes it's a good challenge and your 400 grains bullet at 2000 f/s will made a good job.

I use Vihtavuorie N 133 with 300 grains Hornady bullets and I have 2300 f/s.

NE450No2, In order:
1. The chamber was lengthend a few thousandth so the crimped Woodleigh dummy cartridge would not engage the rifling.
2. 54 grains of TAC has a very low deviation. The reference load was 53.5 grains TAC and at 55 grains I think there were signs pf possible pressure and deviation increased.
3. No trimming, just used new Hornady brass and crimp both Weldcore softs and solids at crimping groove.

Patm1,
I also like VVN133 for my 300 grain Northfork loads; at 2250fps, they shoot to same point of aim as factory Hornady 300 grains bullets.

With the 400 grain bullets, N133 and TAC shot well at 2000 fps, but as velocity moved up, TAC seemed to remain very accurate while my N133 load seemed to flatten out WRT velocity and accuracy. The extra 50 to 70 fps may not mean much to the target animal, but it did allow me to reach my velocity goal.

I have killed a coupe of deer with the Hornady factory loads, the worked great.

Then I killed 2 deer this las season with my Noreth Fork loads and I was most impressed with the exit holes.

I would not be afraid to shoot even a cape buff with a 300gr North Fork.

I would definately like to have some solids for follow up.

Did you ever try any of the North Fork 300gr or 330gr FP Solids?

Crshelton,
what is your load with N133 with 300 grains bullet?
Perhaps the N140 works better with 400 grains bullets.
Le Vectan Tu 5000 works also very well with 300 grains.
I think that a 350 grains Nosler Partition style will be a very good bullet for the .405 but It's not a very interresting caliber for the bullets manufacturer.

NE450no2,
Same for me - after taking pronghorn, feral hog, deer with Hornady factory 300 grain ammo, I shot a nilgai a bit high and hit the shoulder blade and the bullet did not penetrate the offside shoulder blade. We had to hunt down the nilgai, wound him again running, and then finish him off. A perfect shot in the ribs would have been a shoot through, but I still looked for a better 300 grain bullet for large tough game and found the North Fork .405 bullets. All three(FPS, CPS, and bonded PSP) shoot to the same point of aim and are very accurate. I took a water buffalo with a CPS an it performed quite well.

cr

Thanks for the info. I have thought about getting some NF Cup and Flat nosed Solids, for followup shots and for finishers on bigger game here in the States. Keeping everything at 300 grains just makes it simpler for me.
My 300gr NF loads hit the same place at 100 yards, as Hornady factory 300gr FP, and the same place as my Hornady FP reloads.

I doubt I would take the 405 to Africa for a hunting trip, as I am too much of a double rifle freek for that.

But you never know.

PatM1

quote:

what is your load with N133 with 300 grains bullet?

I settled on 53.2 grains of N133 and large rifle primers which drives all three 300 grain NF bullets (FPS,CPS, and bonded PSP) 2250 fps. This is the same velocity as Hornady factory 300 grain bullets.

Thank you crshelton,
we have the same load with N133.

Guys: CR and I have traded notes as well and in my 1895 I was able to achieve 2240-50 fps with 51gr of 133 for the NF soft and TSX (both 300gr). I had to download by .5gr to get the velocity of the NF solid (also 300gr) down to the same MV. Remember the TSXs and NF softs are .411 whilst the solids are .413. The 300gr Woodleighs I use 52 gr to get them to 2250 and all to POI. I mounted a Williams peep on mine and the groups shrank significantly. I can hold a 2"group@100 all day long. jorge

Speaking of group size, I practiced offhand shooting the 1895 .405 400 grain Hornady's DGS yesterday in a 20mph crosswind blowing in from my right. Timing the gusts was a bitch!

Did fine at 25 yards, firing 3 shot groups at a pretend Nyati deadly triangle. All shots in the 8 inch bull with most of them left of center.
50 yards was another story, with all but a few shots left of center and a couple out of the black.
Since I was just using the .410 DGS as practice ammo, when it was gone, so was I. I plan to shoot Woodies from sticks again this week after the wind dies a bit and some more offhand at 50 yards. This practice is good for gun handling and recoil conditioning. My other lever actions load through the receiver loading gate and it is easy to hold the rifle by the foreend with the left hand and load right handed from a shell carrier on the right side of the stock or belt.
The 1895 loads top down with the action open, so my shell carrier is now on my left side for left handed loading. Slow at first, but practice is helping; an interesting side benefit.

jorge

A bit off topic but are you able to post a pic of your peep sight. How have you found it to use in the bush and what are your thoughts on the aperture size. You seem to be shooting well with it on the range.

Rhodes
DRSS

Rhodes: When I get home I'll take a picture of it on the rifle itself but this is a picture of the exact sight. As to visibility, I've had no issues with it so far.

CR and Jorge,

Have either of you tried the .411" 300gr Barnes TSX FB bullet they designed for the .405 Winchester?

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
CR and Jorge,

Have either of you tried the .411" 300gr Barnes TSX FB bullet they designed for the .405 Winchester?

"I was able to achieve 2240-50 fps with 51gr of 133 for the NF soft and TSX (both 300gr). I had to download by .5gr to get the velocity of the NF solid (also 300gr) down to the same MV. Remember the TSXs and NF softs are .411 whilst the solids are .413. The 300gr Woodleighs I use 52 gr to get them to 2250 and all to POI. I mounted a Williams peep on mine and the groups shrank significantly. I can hold a 2"group@100 all day long. jorge"



Yes. See above. VERY accurate and consistent in both of my jap 405s.

Capoward,
I have a box of the Barnes 300 grain tsx and one of 400 grain solids but have not loaded any of them yet.
With Jorge's success with the 300 grain tsx, I expect the same load to shoot well in my .405.

Jorge,
While I was cleaning my .405 last evening, I saw the NRA Under Wild Skys show and it featured a fellow taking a cape buffalo with his "old fashioned" 1895 .405. Because of the many commercials, I may have missed anything said about the ammo that was used. The rifle looked like a dead ringer for my Miroku/Winchester, but could have been a Miroku/Browning or a like-new original.

It was an original 1895. I spoke to the show host Tony Makris about it at the DSC Life Member Breakfast. He briefly mentions on the show he had "Hornady make me up some solids" but I don't know what they were but even money says there were the .411s they use on their comnercial 450/400 ammo loaded to maybe 1950-2000 fps? On the other bullets mentioned, these Miroku 405s have been a joy to load and shoot, especially when I can get just about any bullet I've tried to shoot POI with minimal tweaking and I have NO DOUBT this rifle will take a buffalo with the TSXs and or NF softs and solids.

Jorge

Thanks for taking the time to reply. My eye's are at the stage where I can't get the front bead deep enough in the rear leaf with some of my iron sights so I'm contemplating the move to a peep sight / ghost ring. Just guaging others experience with them at the moment.

Rhodes
DRSS

My pleasure. I have two of them and over the course of the last year I and Cr Shelton have done a LOT of experimenting with this grand old caliber and with these modern bullets like the TSX and North Forks, I am convinced we're expanded the capabilites of the caliber.

A question:
the Hornady 400 Cal .410 400 gr DGS can work in a 405 Winch?
It's a 410 diameter and the new Browning/Miroku have a 412 barrel.410 is too small ???

I had no luck with them so I used the NF 300gr solids @413 and they worked great. CR Shelton has more experience with that bullet so hopefully he'll chime in.

PatM1,
Back when I was investigating the 400 grain loads for my 1895 .405 WCF, I read many threads on multiple forums about the subject. It seemed that some folks had tried the .410 DGS and DGX in their .405s and concluded that with a clean barrel, the accuracy was poor, but with a fouled/dirty barrel, they were OK. All these folks liked the idea of using American-made and less expensive Hornady DGS and DGX, but used the ,411 Woodliegh solids and Weldcore expanding bullets as they were very accurate.

When I actually went ahead with my 400 grain
project, the desired (and more expensive) .411 Woodleighs were back ordered at Midway, so I bought and used the DGS to work up trial loads, with the objective of averaging 2050 fps and using the Woodleighs when they arrived. I did this and achieved between 2020 and 2050 with the DGS. As hoped, the same load with the .411 Woodleigh bullets achieved an average velocity of 2068 fps (nearly 2080 if corrected back from chrony to muzzle). I recently used the remaining DGS ammo for off hand range practice.

I hope this information helps.

Thank you for your informations crshelton.
I don't want hunt buffalo with my 1895 but only big boars in France.
I ever like "big bullets" for big boars. I use 9,3x62 who is a perfect caliber but now I want use my Winchester 1895.You can rearm very quickly with this rifle , more quickly than a Mauser 98 system.And I don't speak about the "look" of a Winchester 1895!!!
I think that I will use cast bullet during my next hunting season.A 380/400 gr hard cast bullet should make a good job at 2000 f/s.
It's very difficult to buy Woodleigh bullets in France (and Barnes also).No problem with Hornady.
I can see that Swift makes a .411 400 gr bullet.
I will select a nice mold of Moutain mold and test some loads.
Good luck for you Buffalo !

PatM1,
You cast bullets should do the trick nicely.

Can you tell me how large the big boars are where you hunt - just an average weight.

As you know, the southern parts of the USA have a large and growing population of feral hogs and there is much interest in shooting them for sport and food. The larger boars we have taken from our deer lease run 250-300 pounds. The only one that I shot with my 1895 .405 was about 150 pounds and the factory 300 grain Hornady jacketed flat point shot through him and he was DRT. Some fans of the North Fork 300 grain CPS swear they are deadly on large hogs.

crshelton,
about "french" boars the average weight is 80 kg and the bigger is 150 kg.
As you ,I think that the Hornady 300 gr is a good bullet for our boars but I like cast bullets!
In France we hunt the boars in beat and when a big boar runs wtih a dozen of dogs behin him,you must use a big bore and heavy bullets to stop the animal!

Thought I would add a few more ingredient to the soup. I've had CEB produce .411 diameter 400grn solids 380gr Non Cons for my 400 H&H. They have also produce some 320gr NC that might an interesting option in your 405

I bought my 95 with the sole purpose of using it as a cast bullet rifle. I've got a 300 grain, forgot who made it, and a 350 grain made by Mountain Molds.
With a water hardened wheel weight alloy bullet I cannot imagine any hog smaller then a rhino that could not be dealt with a 350 grain bullet.

Jim

arkypete,
yes a 350gr "hard cast" must be made a good job!
Your MM mold is with or without GC ?

Departing tomorrow for RSA with four other folks to slay many critters, large and small.

I am not taking my laptop and my Droid will be turned off, so I can relax when not out hunting. It will be a couple of weeks before I am back on line with a hunting report.
A happy Memorial day holiday to all.

BTW, yes, I did lay in a supply of good cigars and there are rumors of some hard stuff to be available in camp.

Good trip and happy hunting!

Have a great trip/hunt!!!!!!

Good luck, have a great hunt.

I cannot wait to hear how the 405 performed.

The .405 performed beautifully on a buffalo and I just returned and am working on a story/report now.

Congratulations!!
I knew that the .405 is a good caliber!

CONGRATS!!! cant wait to see the full report!!

Teddy didn't call it "Big Medicine" for nothing! I have a TD model in 405 but have not shot it yet. It feels good in the hands though so it should make for an excellent safari rifle. Congrats and waiting for the full detailed report.

That is good to hear. I can't wait to hear the full report.

I had heard a "rumor" that a fella was hunting cape buff with a 405, and the bullets bounced off the hide and the buff gored him, ahd he was last seen "ridding the horns" off through the bushfeldt...

Glad to hear it was not you.