what do you all think about putting a red dote scope on a lever action. I don't like the look of a scope on a lever action but we have them on the M4s at work. At first i didn't like red dotes at all but after shooting popup targets my minde was changed. I have a 450marlin that i keep for protection in alaska.

I LIKE THE BURRIS FASTFIRE II THAT I'VE MOUNTED ON MY 1886. MY OLD TIRED EYES WORK BETTER WITH THE RED DOT COMPARED TO THE WILLIAMS FOOLPROOF I PREVIOUSLY USED ON THIS RIFLE.

CHECK THE PICTURES I POSTED IN THE THREAD BELOW ENTITLED "RESTORING A USRAC/MIROKU 1886...."

THE SIGHT, AS WELL AS BEING SMALL, FAST AND GOOD EVEN IN THE DARK, RESEMBLES AN OVER-SIZED RECEIVER SIGHT. THE BALANCE AND HANDLING REMAIN THE SAME. I THINK IT EVEN LOOKS SKOOKUM. SEE WHAT YOU THINK.

I have it on mine, and it's superb.
I use the Docter Sight II which is small and light and does not obstruct the field of vision like the "tube" type sights do.

- Lars/Finland

thanks

I have used the EOTEC at work . How do the burris hold up the rifle spends most of the time straped to my 4wheeler.

I have Doctor Optic sights and a Burris Fast Fire.

Both work great.

I think the Doctor Optic is a little better.

Either one would make a great red dot for a hunting gun of any kind, including a lever of a double.

In fact I pig hunted yester day with my DO on a 308.

I have a Burris FastFire mounted on my 450/400 Double rifle. It works great!

I have been looking at the Fastfire for hunting. I am not sure of long range accuracy. What kind of accuracy are you getting out at 300 yards?

quote:

Originally posted by MT:
what do you all think about putting a red dote scope on a lever action. I don't like the look of a scope on a lever action but we have them on the M4s at work. At first i didn't like red dotes at all but after shooting popup targets my minde was changed. I have a 450marlin that i keep for protection in alaska.

I also have the .450 Marlin. It knocked the reticle out of a Nikon, so I decided to put an Eotech red dot with the 60 moa circle on it. Great sight, quick and easy to acquire the target. Plus it is rated to 20,000 g's of recoil. It is the perfect choice for that caliber in that rifle. The 60 moa circle is great for if a bear charges at close range. The dot on the Eotech is 1 moa for long range shots, the cheap copies use 4 or 8 moa dots, can't use them for 150 yard shots on animals.

Shottist ...
The Burris Fastfire II has a 4 min dot. On my moose rifle, a modified Win/Miroku '86, the FastFire II dot covers 8" @ 200 yards. Small enough. The thing that ices the cake for me is that the FF II is only a little larger that the William Foolproof that it replaced. The only other sight I considered was the new, and yet unseen, Leopold Delta red dot sight. But I've been super pleased with the FF II. Its perfect for my needs.

That is what my post said, the cheap copies have 4 moa dots and the really junk ones have 8 moa dots. For hunting, 4 moa is much too large for 100 yard shots and is down right unethical for 200 yards.

Eotech dots are only 1 moa, accurate enough for ethical hunting.

The Eotechs are fine, I'm sure, but to me they appear large, heavy, clunky, and are made larger due to their large batteries - AA or AAA. I've been able to shoot 2" groups @ 100 yd with my '86 equipped with a FF II.

As for 200 yd shots being unethical with a 4 min dot, that's merely hyperbole.

Not too long ago I taught a Sniper Rifle School to some LEO's in Idaho.

One of then had an M1A, with a full length rail.

I had a Burris Fast Fire with me.

I suggested he might want to have one on his M1A, if he was to use it for a man hunt in the thick timber where the Sniper Scope would be a severe handicap.

So I mounted it and sighted it in, and we tested it.

Everybody taht shot it had NO trounle hitting a chest sized target out to 300 yards.

Head shots at 100 yards, no problem.

And this was from people that had not shot a red dot at a distance before. Many ahd never shot a red dot.

On my hunting 308, I have no problem hitting a 16" metal gong at 400 yards, and a 18" gong at 500 yards.

The EO Tech and the Aimpoint are good red dots, for AR's, however they are big and heavy... for a hunting gun, I like the Docter Optic best, followed by the Burris Fast Fire.

Now if they would only make a mounting system for my Blaser K95 9.3X74R..
A perfect set up that would be on a very lwt. handy rifle for black bear, moose and elk....

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:
Now if they would only make a mounting system for my Blaser K95 9.3X74R..
A perfect set up that would be on a very lwt. handy rifle for black bear, moose and elk....

They do. You can use the Blaser Weaver rail, and then put the DO or Fast fire in a Weaver base.

I have that set up on a BBF. Works great.

The K 95 takes the same mounts as the rest of the Blasers.

The K 95 does have 2 "pads" for the mount to hook to, instead of a totally flat surface between the mounting points like the R 93 bbls..

But, the Hennebber [sp] thumb lever mount that only attaches to one mounting point will fit on the K 95, but I do not know of there is enough of a flat surface on the "pad" to support the sight with the recoil of a 9,3x74R.

I would check with the maker on that.

Thanks N E 450 No2,
I'll check into both of your suggestions or try to modify the open sights on this rifle so they work for me..

Here is a question for the red dot sight crowd-

Do the stock sights interfere with the picture you see looking through a red dot?

No.

TO be honest, though, on my m/ 1895 the sight sits on a weaver rail which makes it high.
On my father's bolt action it sits on the gun's original scope bases so it's low and there is no problem at all with the open sights interfering with the sight picture.

- Lars/Finland

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:
Here is a question for the red dot sight crowd-

Do the stock sights interfere with the picture you see looking through a red dot?

On most "hunting" type guns, no.

However some people set up their red dots on AR type rifles to co witness with their iron sights.

Better on AR's IMHO, is to have the iron sights in the lower one third of the red dot sight.

With a little practice, you will be surpised how well a good red dot sight works.

They are a LOT faster than iron sights, and a LOT more accurate at a distance for most all of us.

If you have trouble seing iron sights, and do not want to use a scope a good red dot is the way to go.

Most all Military Special OPs and Police SWAT teams use them.

I've got a Fast Fire II that I've tried out on a couple of rifles. The only draw back I can see is the way the adjustments work is awkward. Attempt to move the elevation and the windage may move too. Once you get it sighted in it stays put but you don't want to mount it on a gun where you frequently change types of ammo. Mine will probably end up on my Guide Gun mounted to the XS sight rail. It does obscure the iron sights but removal is just one thumb screw away. I have been masking the aperture that adjusts for ambient light with a piece of tape. That dims the dot down and makes it appear much smaller and clearer even in broad daylight.

FWIW we recently ran our guys thru a carbine course that had shots on steel plates out to 100 yards. If they had a dot sight we made them turn it off half way thru to simulate a malfunction. Their accuracy usually stayed the same but shot cadence slows waaayyy down when switching to irons from the dot sight. It's easier to get good quick hits in bright daylight with the dot and there's no comparison when shooting in reduced light conditions.

Rick R and N E 450 No2 ....

With what target, and at what distance do you sight in your FF lls?

I use a target that has a bullseye bigger around than the dot, do I can center the dot up.

The distance deends on the calibre and what I will use the gun for.

On an AR223 I sight in at 200 yards.

On a 45/70 I would probably sight in at 100 yards.

Since we hunt pretty deep cover I'll usually sight the Guide Gun in at 50 yards. The AR15 is sighted in at 200 yards.

I've used a variety of targets but a bullseye that's a bit bigger than the dot seems to work best for me too.

Thanks, guys. I had been using targets designed for sighting in scopes and found it difficult. The bullseye targets make sense.

Tried the FastFire ll with tape over the brightness sensor. Works great. Think I'll leave it that way.