Guys, I have a stainless Marlin 45-70 with an 18.5 inch barrel. I have been loading 400 grain Speer and 400 grain Barnes Buster bullets as well as 405 grain cast bullets mostly with Accurate 5744. Can anyone give me some other powder suggestions? Accurate 2015, Ramshot E-Xterminator? What's a good all around powder for 400-405 grain bullets in the old 45-70?

Dave:

H4198, IMR4198, IMR3031 (I have and 8-pound container unopened for trade), and H322 are the powders I have used, or are presently using. In the weight range 400-425 grains, there is little difference among these.

Hope this helps.

RL-7 and RL-10X, AA2015-2230-2460-2495, H322 AND H335, H AND IMR 4198, 3031, 4895, Benchmark, X-Term, and a few slightly slower powders...depending on weight,jacketed or cast and/or what YOUR rifle happens to like.

I use more AA2230 and 2460 in my NEF, Marlin, 450M BLR and SMLE 45-70, 450 M and 458 American's with 400-450 gr bullets, but RL-7 does very well...AA2015 fills the case with good velocities(not the highest, 100-200fs less than the rest) and low pressures.

So far I've found what todays powder makers put in their load data is very hard to beat...no having to muck about working out loads.

I just put a 45-70 OEM barrel on my Marlin 336 switch barrel then rechambered it to 458 American. Using a COL of 2.65" and TrueShot 430 gr cast Benchmark and AA2230 I'm hitting ~1900fs with slightly more powder that the book calls for and right at 100% load density...the longer COL and longer throat requires about 3-4 gr more powder just to equal manual velocities. Next stop H4198 and RL-7.

My 458 A Smelly with the TrueShot 430 cast at 3.050" COL works best with AA2460 and ~45KCUP(recommendation from Accurat Arms) so as par for the course...each rifle is unique and you have to "work it out" to get the best accuracy and velocity...or whatever you are looking for, specifically.

Try 50 grains of IMR 3031 with the 400 grain Speer bullet. I get sub MOA from my 1895S. It puts out about 1700 fps which is more than adequate. My largest caribou to date was taken with this load a 150 yards. Jim

IMR 3031.
Start with 50 grains.

Definitely 3031; you can load light to heavy and can't get into any trouble with it as far as high pressures.

as mentioned reloader 7 and imr 3031. best powders for the 45/70.

Okay guys, 3031 it is. I have some Accurate 2015 and H4198 laying around that I will shoot up first.

I pulled my 45-70 out and took it to the range this week. I had forgotten how much fun it was to shoot.


Thanks for all the help!

I must be contrarywise...I used 3031 in several rifles but never liked it because of the long grains and having to fight it when measuring through my several powder measures...no matter how careful I was they were always hanging up on half cut grains and messing up the powder weights. Other than that the powder seemed to provide more than acceptable accuracy in those applications. I have one can I've been nursing for ~35 years although I keep thinking I need to feed it to the flowers.

I've been working with AA2230 and Benchmark in my 458 A x 2.20" the past several days. This case at 2.20" trim length - COL 2.65" with 430gr TrueShot and my 45-70 cases at 2.10" - COL 2.55" and same bullet, have the same NET case volume and produce the same velocities in my SMLE.

I used a 458 WM reamer to rechamber the OEM 45-70 Marlin chamber so I have a 0.600" freebore with the 430 TS cast bullet at 2.65" COL.

The Benchmark meter exceptionally uniform and I started with 50 gr and 1728 fs and increased 1 gr per round to 55 gr and 1931 fs. I also fired one round at 2.56" COL and obtained 1955fs. This load was compressed fairly well.

AA230 metered just as well...starting at 46 gr and 1483fs, one gr increment increase to 59 at 1921fs...this load wouldn't seat beyond 2.665" so it was compressed also.

No pressure indicators with any of the loads...the primers still had rounded edges and no extraction problems...the bases expanded ~0.0005-6" with the highest loads.

Benchrest is a couple steps and AA2230 about 5 steps below 3031 on the newest Hodgdon burn rate table.

From the Alliant site...45-70 - 44gr RL-10X, 2.54", 1641fs and 450M - 47gr RL-7, 2.52" 1963fs...FWIW.

I've hit the highest velo and accuracy with 300 gr Sierra's with H4895 in my 30" NEF...caused a real scuffle on one forum when I posted the data...right out of the Hodgdon's 2006 load manual. The pressure was so low I was getting black blowback on the cases mouths due to the case not expanding quick enough. When I increased the load and the blowback stoppen I didn't even think about posting the velo. I fired 25 more with the same case of that load checking for case thinning, case problems etc...I trimmed ~0.001" per firing for about 6 firings then the stretching slowed to ~ 0.001" every 3-4 firings.

Today I have RL-10X and possibley 8208 on the agenda to test.

I learn something new everytime I go out playing.

You might keep these two powders in mind...

Luck

Thanks guy. Have you tried Accurate 2015?

When I was in business (and because I am a 45-70 nut), I pressure tested about every powder that could conceivably be used in the 45-70. I was shooting 350 bullets of several manufacturers. In all those tests, for a given pressure, 2015 gave the lowest velocities of any of the powders that could achieve that pressure (some of the bulkier ones couldn't reach the specified pressure). I had several lots that spanned well over a decade and manufactured in at least a couple of different countrys. They all gave the same performance of less velocity for a given pressure or more pressure for a given velocity. That doesn't mean it is a bad powder as it may be the most accurate in any one rifle but it is not the best for absolute top performance, if that is what you are looking for. Some loads I have seen on the internet (and even seen published) with 2015 would have been very high pressured in my test rifle. For the most velocity for a given pressure, RE7 and 2230 were at the top of the heap and VVN130 was close second. About all the rest of the powders were clumped together in third place but still only ~80-100fps behind the top loads. 2015 was all alone at the rear, a full 175fps behind the top powders.

I've tried 2015 but hit the same wall as NFMike...it did work fairly well in the 444 barrel tho'.

Todays tests with RL-10/430 gr and RL-7-H4198/300 gr Sierra went well, but hit stuck cases and compression at the top ends with all the powders.

A gas check came off and whacked my front sky screen frame knocking off a big chunk but it kept on functioning...amazing.

I want to try AA2460 when my supplier gets some in. It is about 5% slower than AA2230, has a slightly higher density so doesn't hit compression as soon and works well in my SMLE with the same bullet but at a longer COL....plus longer case life...at least 4 more reloads per case over AA2230.

So far I'm hitting either compression or stuck cases...0.5135" base measurement...at the top end of Hodgdons data for Marlin levergun data for 450 M and 45-70. Maybe I need to rough up the chamber a bit...this one isn't wanting to give very much lee way with the rechamber.

I checked the H2O again with the R-P 458 WM trimmed to 2.20" at 80-81 gr...same as the 45-70 but the 450 M ran 78 gr at 2.085".

The 300 gr Sierra at 2.65" COL using 60 gr H4198 hit 2289fs with the 22" bbl and long throat but stuck at 61 gr at 2343fs and a base of 0.5135"...0.5125" base has no resistance in ejecting so irregardless of what the manual and software data says, whatever pressure produces that base expansion would be too hot. That also seems to be a bit low on the pressure for a belted mag case to expand that much so I need to try some WW or Norma/Lapua?

Hodgdons data says 2424fs with 60 gr H4198 in a 24" bbl, WW cases, 2.1" trim and 2.525 COL...I don't know how they stuff that much powder in that case at that COL...my R-P case was at compression at 2.65" COL with the 458 WM cut down case but with the same case volume...that doesn't compute.

FWIW/FYI...I also loaded both 2.52" and 2.65" COL with the same loads and the different COL's showed these results...I won't list the amounts as they were slightly over what Alliant posts for the 400 gr 450 M but the velocies were close.

430gr TrueShot RL-7/2.525"/1899fs
" " " RL-7/2.65"/1834fs

" " " RL-7/2.525"/1926fs
" " " RL-7/2.65"/1859fs

Basically I have to add a couple grains more powder to equal the velocities in the shorter cases...and the velocities for the shorter COL were very close to the velocities posted by the powder maker...Not sure if I gained anything as I don't have a way to measure the actual pressure.

One thing you learn over time in this game is NOTHING can be taken at face value and EVERYTHING is subject to variables.

I didn't get around to 8208 and I will stop shooting gas checked bullets over the chrono's.

I did the same thing to my Beta Chrony a few days ago..took off the right side front support rod but though it was my shooting...this time I had a nice clear impression of the gascheck on one busted piece AND found the little bugger on the ground where I saw it hit.

This is the first time I've had gas checks come off just beyond the muzzle and I'm wondering if it is the muzzle brake doing the dirty?

I need to lay in a supply of powder...I'm out of H322, H335, AA2465, and running out of AA2230, H4198, RL-7 and 15, Varget AND Benchmark.

Hey, Dave...enjoy that 45-70...they can grow on you.

NFMike...what brand pressure testing equipment did you use?? I just checked Oehler when I ordered my parts and they aren't offering the 43 anymore...??

Didn't mean to hijack here...we're working with the same caliber at the same time so I thought I would add what I came across.

Luck

It was the M43 that I have had for over 15 years. Lots of rounds went through that thing. It's so old it still runs on DOS

I have been shooting .45-70s since about 1972.
I have found it to be pretty docile and have never used but 5 or 6 powders in it. I always run out of interest due to recoil, long before I care about the velocity.
In the more energetic loads I like 4198 with 300 grn jacketed bullets and 3031 for 400 to 500 grains. I use an old AMT/Lyman Autoscale to dispense stick powders so the long grains do not bother me.
If you like 5744 for some loads I have found that SR4759 burns much cleaner. I get exceptional accuracy with 500 grain cast bullets using SR4759 at black powder velocities.
I shoot a lot of cast bullets and I do not like the bullets having to run over the unburned grains of 5744.

quote:

If you like 5744 for some loads I have found that SR4759 burns much cleaner.

Yes, that´s true. The 5744 burns not realy clean. I use for cast bullets the Vitha N110, it burns very clean, with the same best results, as 5744.


Martin

I have been looking over piles of load date for the 45-70. Geez, there is a mountain of it. However, Accurate Powder seems to have the best data for the bullets I want to try. I have some 2015 on my bench which I will use up as well as some H4198 but once that is gone, I think I will try Accurate 2230.

By the way, if you haven't tried the 400 grain Barnes Buster bullet, you should give them a hard look. It is a superb bullet for the 45-70 if you are looking for straight line penetration on a large animal like a bison. I tested them at the range in wet phone books and they do everything Barnes says they do.

While the nod seems to fall on IMR3031, if you have any Varget lying around give it a try, works real well with 350 grain cast bullets. I used H322 also great powder.

I tried a lot of powders launching about 2K bullets downrange in the 1st year of owning my 1895GS. I eventually settled on the Remington 405gr JSP for my hunting needs and a velocity of about 1800fps.

I found that I didn't like the velocity change with temperature that IMR3031 produced. So I've stuck with Hodgdon's Extreme series since. I settled on H4198. Consistent BOOM whether 0*F or 90*F.

Part of the reason I stick with Hodgdon is that their products are widely available. Not so with Alliant's RE7 in my area.

Ramshot is the only other powder manufacturer I would play with if I had to work up another "go to" load - I really like their products.

Don't forget to try some black powder shooting as well.
Handguns, lever actions and single shots are a lot of fun with Black.
Frank

Some twenty years ago purchased a book entitled "Forty Years w/the 45/70" by Paul A. Mathews and has a lot of useful information on reloading/shooting the 45/70. I own two, one a custom Ruger NO. 3 w/ medium wt. 22" barrel and a Browning 1886 rifle, 26" octagon and both perform very well with the 3031. Very little if any unburned powder left in bore.
Local gent produces some very fine cast/GC bullets of various weights and they work fine, but my favorite is the Rem. 405 jacketed bullet(they are cheap!) The Ruger is set up with Leupold Custom Shop 2.5 Ultralite and heavy three post reticle and very good for snap shots in thick cover if needed. As mentioned, when bored with the other calibers/rifles I have, take these two to the range and enjoy being able to see those big holes very close together on target.

A different drummer feeds my .45-70.

Both it and I like any of the various copper plated (not jacketed) 350 grain bullets over 58 grains of any powder equivalent of 4895, including IMR 4895, H-4895, Vihtavouri N-135, Tubal 500, or the various ball equivalents. My rifle is a Browning 26" octagon barrel M '86 clone.

IMR 3031, good speed with 405's at low pressure.

I shoot a lot of 45-70 and reload it more than any other rifle cartridge. I have tried most powders over the years and these 3 work best for me. I use IMR 3031 for jacketed bullets, 5744 for hard cast and goex cartridge (black) for soft cast and paper patch bullets.

Big fan of Hodgdon 4895 -- mostly because it's versatile and works in most larger center-fire calibers:

30-30 Win.
.308 Win.
30-06 Spfd
45-70 Govt.
.458 Win. Mag.
.458 Lott

quote:

Originally posted by Wrangler John:
While the nod seems to fall on IMR3031, if you have any Varget lying around give it a try, works real well with 350 grain cast bullets. I used H322 also great powder.

I concur! I've been shooting 57.0 of Varget under a 350 gr. Hornady RN outta my 1895G for several years.
Accuracy is splendid, and no worries about tackling any critter on this continent with it.

another 3031 fan. 38 grains approximates factory velocities and 46 grains gives about all the recoil i want and enough thump for anything i care to hunt with it.

3031 fan here too. all i use with jacketed bullets. i also like 4759 for cast bullets. 3031 works great when using powder dippers, so it quick and consistant to reload.

I have used IMR 3031 in a lot of different calibres.
222, 223, 22/250, 308, 30/06, reduced loads in 300 Win Mag, 350 Rem Mag, 375 H&H reduced loads, 405 Win, 416 Rem mag, reduced loads 45/70, 458 Win Mag, 450 No2, and probably a few others over the years I cannot remember right now.

I have just used a good powder despenser and "thrown" most of these loads as I was loading them in fairly high volume.

I did load development so that a half a grain or so either way did not make any difference in practical accuracy for what I was using these loads for.

For loads to be used on long range hunting or shooting, or for hunting DG, I hand weigh them.

I've tried quite a few bullets and powders in my 1895SBL. When all was said and done only one combination shot sub moa @ 100 yards every time. Many combinations shot well but this load beat them all:

300gr Barnes TSX-FN
48.0gr - H4198
Starline case
Federal 210M primer

Velocity from the 18.5" barrel was 2,040 ft/sec as recorded on my Oehler 35.

Weight retention was 98% after being stopped by a dirt and rock berm.