I want to get a new rifle to hunt blk bear in P.A. and just about any place they are.I was thinking of a 35 whelen in a bolt gun; but then i thouth of why not a lever gun in a big cal, 444, 450 45/70.
Wich one would be the best all around to use on bear, moose to. I figure hunting will be under 150 yds or less.
spqr

That's easy a Winchester 95 in 405 Winchester.
Jim

I've used the 450 Marlin with good results on moose and bears here in Alaska and on kudu in Namibia. There's also quite a few 45/70's used around here. Kind of a toss-up as far as performance with equivalent loads. It will probably be easier to find ammo, etc. for the 45/70 depending where you're at.

quote:

Originally posted by spqr:
I want to get a new rifle to hunt blk bear in P.A. and just about any place they are.I was thinking of a 35 whelen in a bolt gun; but then i thouth of why not a lever gun in a big cal, 444, 450 45/70.
Wich one would be the best all around to use on bear, moose to. I figure hunting will be under 150 yds or less.
spqr

Well, I'll admit to prejudice, but I'd go witht he .35 Whelen. If you want a lever action, you could try and chase down either the Browning 1895 Winchester copy or one of the Winchesters 95s made in japan. Either one of those two in either .270 Win. or 30-06 can easily be rebarreled to the Whelen. I don't think either one would be scope friendly though. You could also chase down one of the Browning long action BLRs and rebarrel that to the Whelen. If you want to exclude the great bears, Griz, coastal griz and polar, you could got to a Browning BLR in .358 Win., a rather under appreciated cartridge that would be more than adequate fo any black bear. All those ideas sticking strictly to using a lever action. Some of the iseas, I'll admit are a bit expensive. However, even if you were to find a bolt action rifle, either by Remingtpn or Ruger in .35 Whelen, they would have the wrong rifling twist. I have both of those rifles and they have a 1 in 16" twist rather than the proper 1 in 12" twist. I've often wondered, what were they thinking?
I think I'd pass on the .444 marlin as I like heavier bullets that it can technically handle. I's also give the .450 Marlin a pass, partly due to logistics and partly due to personal prejudice. That leaves the 45-70, which, assuming you're a handloader, you can make as as mild or as hot as you like, within reason.
As a matter of fact, any of the rounds being considered could be a logistical nightmare as I doubt every corner store will be carrying any of those particular rounds.
Paul B.

quote:

444, 450 45/70

Flip a three-sided coin. They all will do the job.

Black bear are not difficult to kill.

If you like levers, any one of .30-30,.32 Win Spcl., .33 Win, .348 Win, .35 Rem., .356 Win, .358 Win, .375 Win, .38-55 Win, .405 Win., .444 Marlin, .450 Marlin, .45-70, and on and on will do just fine.

You could make a similar list, only longer, for bolt action rifles. Even slide (pump) rifles and semi-autos come in lots of fully adequate chamberings.

Guess where I am going with this is: How much do you like a particular type of action? How much do you want to spend? Do you want to use only factory ammo, or do you reload? Physically, how much weight do you feel good carrying? How recoil sensitive are you? And, of course, how much do you actually shoot per year?

If you can answer all of those for yourself, the right rifle/cartridge for your use will be much easier to determine.

I doubt you will go wrong with anything you pick, so long as you stay away from most cartridges under .25 caliber, and most pistol rounds.

Good luck, and enjoy the hunt(s)...

AC

You can also include the .44 Mag, 45 LC. 454 Casull and 480 in as lever guns more then capable in waking Mr Black bear. Since your in PA shots can be close!

You may consider a BLR in 358 Win. Not a bad compromise between a 35 Whelen and a lever gun.

How about the davidsons special runs now avaiable in either 30-40 krag or 30-06 in a 1895 carbine for something different than already mentioned.

The idea that the 1:16 rifling twist in factory Remington rifles for .35 Whelen is "wrong" is not true, in my opinion.

I shoot a Rem 7600 in .35 Whelen. Very accurate with 250 grain factory ammo.

Perhaps people who reload and want heavier bullets might have different opinions, but I don't reload and just about any 250 grain I put in the gun holds a nice group.

1:16 works just fine for factory ammo. Maybe that's what Remington was thinking?

Browning BLR in .358win shooting a good 225gr bullet like the nosler partition or Barnes TSX a good light-weight quick handling set up.

Try a Savage 99, Browning BLR, or a Winchester 88. Hard to beat a 308 Win. Get a premium bullet, after all PA has produced some awesome bears. You may need to anchor a 600 or 700 pound animal.

Do not shoot a bear behind the shoulder as you would a whitetail. Shoot him through the shoulder blades to break his spine. Then walk up to him and put one in the heart/lungs. Or the skull if you do not care for B&C measurements.

Good luck in your hunt and all the anticipation it brings.

Alberta Canuck:

You spoke true when you said black bear are not hard to kill. I've killed several in north central Ontario (Nipissing district) using a 7x57 (7mm Mauser), 154 gr. bullet. A local guide (incidently, one of the best woodsmen I've ever met in my life and I've seen a few) was of the opinion that the Magnums were not all that effective on blacks because the bullet often zipped through and no hydrostatic shock was built up. (I guess he liked the big slow moving bullet) BTW, I notice that you mention the 32 Win. Special, 33 Win. and 38-55 in your admirable listing of cartridges. You must be nearly as old as me if you remember the 33 Win and the 38-55. (When I was a boy, a lot of farmers in my upstate NY area owned Winchesters chambered in 38-55 and killed a lot of deer with it - the year around! (Times were hard, it was the Depression and no one blamed them) I do have to tell you that I always have remembered a crack by Barnes in his "Cartridges of the World" that he made about the 32 Winchester Special. He said it was a great cartridge -if you don't think smokeless powder is here to stay! (He was, of course, comparing it to the 30-30 - a great cartridge in its own right)

Marlin 1895 in 45/70 and never look back. the only problem you will have is which model 1895 to choose from .Check them out at the marlin website and then go handle each one to see which one feels best.I myself like the 1895 XLR the longer barrel will give you the highest velocity for longer shots. If your looking for a brush gun then its the 1895 guide gun. And if your not sure what you want you can always cut down the XLR later on. Good Luck