Don't know whether to post here, Black powder, or Gunsmithing but here goes. I'm restoring a circa 1904 Mod. 73 in cal 32-20. The bore looks like an old cast iron sewer pipe and is being relined with a 1/2" OD "TJ" CM liner. All the action links, toggles, pins, etc. are in fine shape and show little wear. I read never exceed about 9000 psi and never use anything except black powder in this rifle. It's not the pressure, but the pressure CURVE that does the damage they say. I do love to shoot black powder in LARGE bores but fouling will be a real pain in a .312 bore which cannot be wiped from the breech. Strength at the breech should not be a problem with a new 1/2 dia. CM liner so I guess it's the linkage that cannot survive a smokeless powder pressure curve? Any comments? Thank you.

I use American Pioneer BP substitute in my '73 Winchester in 44wcf. After approx 3000 rds (judging by the empty cast bullet boxes), the action is still as tight and sound as it was when I rebuilt it. With a Lyman tang sight and 60+ y/o eyes I can get 2" groups at 45yrds from a rest on a good day for me.
I've used American Pioneer back to when it was CleanShot powder, have used alot of it, and have never had a problem with it

What I like about the powder is that there is virtually no fouling unlike BP which can jam up the action after a few rounds. I can shoot 50 or even 100 rounds with no fouling problems. Easy cleanup too. Just a couple of plain water wet patches and dry & oil.

I know alot of people don't like the BP subs, but I think for a BP era repeater firearm, they have a place.

This 73 Winchester (made in '89 I believe) was originally a 38wcf with a bore in a condition similar to yours. I had it rebored to 44 by Ken Bresien many years ago and a simple rechambering brought the barrel back to life. It simply sparkles now.

I rebuilt the action with oversize pins, fitted & silver soldered a new front half to the excessivly worn bolt and machined it back to original dimentions, and rebuilt the bolt support area in the receiver so the bolt didn't drop down when locking up as it had been from wear.
The rifle had been a really worn out piece.

I built up the corners of the brass carrier and refitted it into the frame for a nice sliding fit. It too had extreme wear to it.

I did leave the outside of the rifle as I found it. Brown metal, worn wood, even some initials and a 1/1/(19)04 date lightly scratched into the butt stock. Maybe someday I'll fix it up.

Maybe someone will have some info with smokeless loads proper for a '73. Perhaps the new TrailBoss powder is something that would be usefull.

I have often though of trying smokeless in mine but knowing the weakness of the design and the reletively soft steels used I always go back to what has worked.
Maybe I'm missing out on something!,,but the rifle is still tight, shoots pretty good and is still in one piece.

2115hq...

Thank you very much for the comments. I have never cared for BP substitutes either but using them in repeaters, especially small bores, makes a lot of sense. When I'm ready to shoot the rifle I'll give American Pioneer a try. I did fire about 15 Winchester 100g lead factory rounds when I first got the gun with no problems except for shotgun quality "groups". It does not appear my 73 saw near as much use as yours. It's exterior metal is in a similar condition to yours except I'm replacing the smashed magazine tube. The wood is pretty nice except for the usual dings and scratches. Also, after reading your post and waiting for the liner to arrive, I think I will make new (oversize) link pins. The current (original) ones DO fall out on there own even though they have no noticeable end play. And, in light of your experiences, I will take a closer look at the bolt lock-up, head space, etc. Thanks again for the very useful information.

Jon

Winchester must have started proving the '73 with smokeless powder loads at some point, right?

It might help you to find out when that practice began. If it was before 1904, that would give you some comfort, I would think.

Another possibility might be to use lower powered "smokeless for black" loads. Maybe an old Lyman manual would be of some help?

Or maybe some cowboy action shooters can chime in?

Good luck with your rebuild. I love to see old rifles brought back to life.

Winchester started advertising that the '73 was fit for the smokeless loads of the day in the mid 1890's.
I'm not aware of what the pressures of these were but I'd guess they were probably equivelent to the BP loads used.

Loading manuals from the 1960's give some over-max loads by todays standards for the 44-40 (using 2400 powder in particular).
Why anyone would want to go anywhere near max in a '73 is beyond me, but shows you have to be careful using older data. They update it every year for a reason.

I have found some interesting smokeless loads and info on the net but still will most likely stick with what I have been using.

Bringing an old, worn and/or abused rifle back to useful life is rewarding.