I have been nursing the idea of buying a 45-70 lever action and, last week, I came across two guns on that calibre.
One was a Winchester and the other one a Marlin.
I didn’t had much time to check everything thoroughly but there were a few things that caught my attention:

1 – The Winchester is much more expensive than the Marlin

2 – The Marlin is lighter and the action doesn’t seem as strong as the Winchester’s.

3 – Mounting a scope on the Winchester will be more difficult as the mount has to be attached to the left side of the gun.

I am new to this type of gun and I would lke to start on the right foot.

Any advise about what to look for would be appreciated.

B.Martins

According to Ken waters in his two part Pet Loads article rated the 1886 Winchester and the "new model" Marlin as being about equally strong. The Wincester is heavire, and I believe you can seat bullets a bit farther out in the Winchester, the Marlin being restricted to cartridge length of, IIRC, 2.55", although Mr. Waters said he got away with 2.57" with some bullets. I have one of the first New Model 1895 Marlins, the one with the buttplate designed by the Marquis de Sade. I have run some very stout loads through that rifle, so I certainly would not worry about the strength of the Marlin vs the Winchester.
If you plan to relaod for the rifle, regardless of which one you choose, get a copy of Ken Waters' book, Pet Loads. You'll be glad you did even if you never reload for all the other cartidges covered in the book.
Paul B.

This is a matter of personal preference, but if you are going to scope it I would get the Marlin. My son and I have used ours for years with complete satisfaction, which is somewhat unusual for me.

I have a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in .45-70, and absolutely love it. Can't say much about the Winchester, but like the others, it's a personal thing. You might check out leverguns.com, or marlinowners.com because there is a wealth of info on both rifles.

Mad Dog

Thank you all for your valuable advises.

I was concerned about Marlin’s action strength because I will be reloading for this rifle (as I do for all the others I own) and the Winchester’s action seemed stronger (having those two side lugs and all…).
I am going to take a look at the sites that Mad Dog refers and try to make up my mind.

B.Martins

The marlin will be better for a scope for sure....I also have the 1886 win 45/70 but it will be getting converted to the 50-110 winchester, all though the 1886 is stronger the Marlin is more than capable of handling heavy loads.

The Marlin is very strong and the limits to hot loads are usually limits of the shooter to the recoil . There are factory loads to 40,000 psi which have been shown to be very effective on game and within the limits of the rifle and shooter.

Personally I vote for the Winchester 1886.
Having a scope on the rifle was not a consideration for me, since any shooting I would do with a 45-70 would be within the capability of the reciever sight, not tang sight.
Jim

I have three 45-70s, two of the new Win. 86's, and EX Lite and the standard rifle along with the Marlin 1895CB. On any given day the Winchesters are by far the better rifle.JMO While the CB is plenty accurate it is too light for HV loads with the slim buttstock. (again MO) The Winchesters just come out on top.

Don't forget you can put a "Scout Scope" on these things! That's the best of all worlds, in my book. No chance of getting bopped in the forehead, and ideal for moving targets, and follow up shots.


Pertinax

Both the Win. 86 and Marlin 95 are fine rifles but I prefer the Marlin for the above mentioned reasons.
One big plus for the Marlin over the Winchester (for me anyway) is how easy it is to clean from the breech by simply removing the lever pivot screw, bolt, and ejector.

Jon

quote:

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Originally posted by pertinax:
Don't forget you can put a "Scout Scope" on these things! That's the best of all worlds, in my book. No chance of getting bopped in the forehead, and ideal for moving targets, and follow up shots.


Pertinax

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Pardon my ignorance, but what is a “Scout Scope� Can you explain what it is, or even post a pick?

Thanks

B.Martins

You must also consider whether you want a Carbon steel 45-70 or a stainless 45-70. From what I have read a stainless version would be stronger than a carbon model.

Why worry about this anyway?

Decide on barrel length.

b. martins- first, welcome to the wonderful world of the 45/70. go with the marlin, you won't be dissapointed. second, a scout scope is a scope mounted near the rear sight, not over the action, like a conventional mount. they use a smaller scope than a conventional mount, and are fairly decent. german troops in the second world war used this type of setup, (zf-41) on their k98 rifles, and were recording kills at over 500 yds. scout style scopes are neat, accurate (there is no need to draw focus in it vs a conventional style scope, as the relief is seemingly non existent), and definitely unusual, sure to get some looks and start a conversation with another hunter/shooter. go to google (or any other search engine, and type up scout scopes, or zf-41, and you'll see what one is. also, they are somewhat popular on M-1A's (civilian m-14 rifles), check out your local gunshops and see if they have one on display. good luck!

I own and have been carrying both in alaska for over a decade. I use Buffalo Bore ammo in both rifles. I like the Win. best as it hold more and operates a lot slicker and just feel like a better rifle. During the time I've owned them the Marlin has had to have the lever replaced as it finally worn enough that it wouldn't allow the feed ramp to move up enough to feed reliably. The Marlin is much softer steel than the Winchester/Browning .

Scout scope setup.


http://www.cylindersmith.com/45-70.html

That is a great rig for Sure !!

First up, your makin the best move you'll probarly ever make,so far as the smaller of the big bores. So far as the 45gov is concerned.I Have ownded and hunted with a marlin for many years under very,adverse conditions!From the Tropics to the Nullabour Plain and it has yet to let me down .

I have made up my mind!
Now there is a Marlin at the gun shop with my name on a tag. I have already asked for a permit and the police department will have it ready by the end of this week/beginning next.
After getting the rifle I will decide upon what to do: fitting it with a conventional scope or a scout scope? Fitting a peep sight or not?
Then it will be time for preparing some reloads. I have already bought the dies but haven’t found any bullets yet (apart from some Spanish? ones).
I hope I can find some decent bullets so I can work up a good load. I will have all summer to work on it, preparing for next hunting season.

B.Martins

You'll not regret the 45 marlin.I've only owned mine a year and a half,but its my #1 sweetie even over some $4000+stuff.You want eye relief of whatever your going to use to be at bare minimum 4.5",unless you want a clitoris over your right eye.Not bad standing but at the bench is where they bite.Scout scopes are good,peeps too.I got a luepold straight 2x with 6" ER,works good.I ended up middle of the road on loads weight .300,'s are thin skinned,400's are footballs.I dont know how your access is to hornady 350 grain bullets and 49 grains of H4198,but if you can roll them two together you'll be pleased

charger,

Thank you for your advice regarding the loads, but unfortunately USA powders are almost beyond our reach in Portugal.
I will try Vihtavuori and Vectan (Tubal) powders as they are the ones more readily available, and I think that I can get my hands on some Hornady and Speer bullets.
I intend to use this rifle mainly for wild boar hunting, most of the time in thick bush, which demands an aiming device capable of acquiring your target really fast. Between a scout scope and a peep sight which one would be better for this purpose?
What about scout scopes’ field of view? Is it wide enough for this kind of hunting?

B.Martins

Its interesting you would mention scout field of view,because it is virtually non existant.Your smart to go scoped on an eratic moving animal .It takes one thing out of the equation to line up,however I would be going compact wide angle low power. I recommended the luepold earlier in their m8 model which comes in a 2.5 power heavy reticle.Extremely fast to acquire.As for the powder your the luckiest fart I ever saw.Imr 4198 and H 4198 are the two longstanding powders for these guns,and on the burn rate chart their only seperated by one powder.Thats vihtavuoriN133.So give that a go,back down a grain or two to start and work up.Keep in mind as well as luepold scopes having good eye relief and field of view they take shock well which is a consideration with these guns.I dont know what your access is to rings and mounts,but by golly make sure their solid.The 45/70 gives a good solid shove.Anymore conversation would be fine at dougl@nrtco.net

I'd send you a couple boxes of hornady's but I guess the shipping on lead would be brutal.I'm goin to call our postal outlet and let you know,just for the heck of it.I cant see a fella stuck

Went to the postal service for you with two boxes,50 projectiles in each box and because of the weight the shipping and the projectile cost are almost the same 32 can$ for shipping the 100 prj's. I'll tell you,if you can get your hands on PMC ammo,their ballistics are almost identical to good reloads if you buy 350 grainers.What you have to watch out for when buying 300 grain ammo or projectiles is that they tend to be very thin jacketed to expand at the velocities of older rifles,meaning if you buy 300 grain factory ammo it is loaded to very low pressure.PMC is the only comp. I've seen making a good 350 grain 2050 fps load.Like I said,I'd send you some projectiles but good God its almost cheaper to hand deliver

charger,

Thank you for all your trouble, but apart from the high shipping costs when importing from America, there would be a lot of taxes to be paid.
In top of that our legislation regarding guns, guns’ components, ammo and ammo components, is very restrictive and only registered gun dealers and gunsmiths are allowed to import them.
I have found some Federal ammo with 300 grains bullets at a reasonable price (when compared with other brands) and I think I will buy 100 rounds to start with and in the meanwhile will ask the gun shop to import a few hundred 350 grains Hornadys for me.

B.Martins

It’s done!
Received the authorization from the police department yesterday and went straight to the gun shop to pick up my first lever action!

A Marlin 1895G it is!

As it will be used mostly in thick bush, installing a peep sight may be in order (a scout scope would be to “heavy†for my budget right now).
Suggestions and recommendations from the experienced lever action’s users would be welcomed.

B.Martins

XS sightsystems ,for quick aquisition.Hey if you want to email me I'll talk more about your new toy,cause I can only do these short replies on here for some reason dougl@nrtco.net

B., I got to second the XS, it works great on lever actions. It's quick and for hunting you can't beat it. It's not a bench rest sight but for any hunting situation it can't be beat.

First thing you want to do is remove the lower lever screw.Clean it off with something that evaporates like lighter fluid,etc. Then apply some kind of thread lock glue.and tighten it back up.On very rare occasion these screws have come loose over the course of many lever operations.You can either keep an eye on the screw or do this and then not worry.Apart from that small rare glitch,have fun.

charger & Rooster,

Thank you both, for your valuable advices.

Unfortunately I couldn’t find a peep sight in any of the gun shops or gunsmiths in Lisbon area, so I ordered it (together with a scout scope mount) from XS.
I suppose it will take a few weeks to de delivered, and by then the hunting season will be closed and I will have plenty of time to test everything (loads included).

B.Martins

Here's an out of the ordinaty approach. Try an aimpoint red dot. Depending which model you get you can get real fast target picture by keeping both eyes open, and since you said you would be in the brush, magnification is not an issue. Some folks do not like the idea of a red dot on a lever action, but besides looks, they are very functional.

First up congulations on the new rifle .For Bush work I have always found a peep /apeture sight works just fine. Although many years ago I had a(from memory) a x2 leupold pistol type scope fitted to a Ruger no 3 in 45-70 because of its long eye relief (beware the WEATHERBY EYEBROW).I tend to go for a large apeture as they tend to stand up to more punishment than a scope and dont tend to lose their zero