https://www.wideopenspaces.com...n-45-70-africa-pics/

Good artical I return to every now and then. Maybe to find justification for modern 45cal lever gun.

Jens,

The .45-70 (within the bounds of reason) is a perfectly serviceable cartridge for some African applications. Of course, if imprudently pressed to do more than it should it can fail (as ANY cartridge can when over-tasked).

I've done the "modern levergun" thing in 2002 as I wanted the fast handling that the lever provides while hunting leopard behind dogs. Before that in fact, I had a Marlin built for a Zim PH before the Guide Gun was introduced...and both he and clients swore by the combo.


While I'll rev up the .45-70 a bit, I am decidedly not in the camp that believes that a hot-loaded .45-70 becomes a ".458 Kurz". Others are free to do as they choose, of course...but not me, thank you!


Dredging up a picture of that spottie makes me realize that 2002 was a few years ago (and that I've gotten MUCH greyer since then!).

Mark

The 1873 45 Government cartridge, which we now call the 45-70 is, in reality, three different cartridges in today's terms.
Each level of power (pressure) dependent on the rifle.
A: Black powder level. Springfields, and others.
B: Mid level lever action loads for Marlins and 1886s.
C; Shoulder breaking loads in the Ruger #1 and Siamese Mauser.
Read the article in Ken Water's Pet Loads; he lays it all out in great detail. Pick the power level that you want and that will determine which rifle you need. (I had a bicentennial, bought in 1976, Ruger 45-70); I loaded it so hot that it was impossible to hang on to the fore end. Maybe too much of a good thing, but it killed. On both ends.
And I have owned several 1973 make Marlins; all gone now. those are plenty of power, really.
And don't worry, the brass will take any pressure.

Thanks Bee.

I was browsing the .45-70 Piledriver artical and I found this site here with a similar bullet type.

http://45-70.blogspot.com/p/kakuli-harcast-475gr.html

No question the .45-70 can bring the biggest down.

Shooting a 475 grain, 45 caliber hard bullet at 1600 fps is a good killer and has been well proven for decades now. Modern hunters are brainwashed with the misconception that it is velocity that kills.
Read more Elmer....

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Read more Elmer....

I've read a lot of Elmer. I have owned several .45-70 rifles including 3 1886 winchesters in this caliber. One rifle, one extra LW TD and one SRC. The carbine was the most accurate. However I never pumped them any harder than what Elmer recommended as these were older rifles but in good condition.
Ofcouse Paul A Matthews book I had to have too.( He must have passed away now). Another book I hold dear is the 'Winchester Lever Legacy'. by Clyde Williamson. Many good loads to rely on that surpas original factory ballistics.

Cool article. Sure like my lever .45-70. And this classic round in general.

I no longer load hot like I used to; no need on either end of the muzzle. I use 48 grains of 3031 under a 400 grainer for most things but that is not for DG; I would use a very hard cast or a solid brass bullet for that.

Bingo, Tom!

It's just not necessary to load the .45-70 to "blind, burn and deafen" levels to get an effective killing machine.

And, like you, I had to hot rod my No. 1 to silly levels as well...boy, it sure didn't take long for the fun to wear off of that!

Mark

What dpcd said about importance of the bullets used!
On a frontal brain shot, my 1886 .45-90 shot the brass Punch bullet through the ele head and into the body behind. Same for the North Fork FPS.
However the excellent Kodiak FMJ expanded and did not penetrate the ele brain - stunned it but did not kill. The Kodiak was great for cape buff though.
With the right bullets and loads, the .45-70 and 90 can and have killed all African DG.

Plus, a hunting friend of mine who at last count had killed 13 African leopard, started with .458 Win mag, switched to 12 ga shotgun, and finally settled on the Marlin .45-70 for leopard. It must have worked as no cat ever reached him and several tried; some of the videos are a bit scary.

Just remember, the modern 45-70 load is MOL the 450 BP round. It was very highly thought of, even by Pondoro Taylor.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Just remember, the modern 45-70 load is MOL the 450 BP round. It was very highly thought of, even by Pondoro Taylor.

The .450 express load could have been the nitro-for-black with a 365 grain bullet doing 2100 ft/sec...

Jens,
Grizzly Cartridge loads the 405 grain Punch bullet as +P to 2050 fps. At that velocity it will punch through a 5/8 inch steel plate; been there, done that with slower hand loads.

My buds and I use Miroku made Winchester 1886 .45-70 and .45-90 rifles and they can handle the higher pressure loads. My 1886 .45-90 with 26 inch full octagon barrel spits out 450 grain Kodiak FMJ at 2150 FPS MV. Loaded ammo courtesy of Grizzly.

Jens,
Small world! I just read the article and I know and have hunted with the guys in the pix!
In fact, just last month we took Josefs boys and my grandson deer hunting near Victoria, TX.
The author is my best hunting friend and one of the 1886 rifles he took to Africa was my .45-90. That 1886 45-70 with QD scope and QD peep sight is one slick package. Being a gunmaker, he was able to customize the rifle to his exact needs. I will also copy some mutual friends with the email link and they have not likely seen this article.
Until now, I had never seen this article!
Thanks for posting. I will email Josef a link to this thread ASAP.
Jens, I owe you a round of drinks!

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
Jens,
I owe you a round of drinks!

My High School reunions are way overdue from Alabama and I have a friend Texas I must stop by to visit next time in the US...So I might just take you up on that one next time I slide through town. I guess its a Texas Round-up...

I was meant to go to Texas many years ago(in the 90s) to see the Winchester guy George Madis. He invited my to have a mexican dinner with him(he liked mexican food). I was a big time collector back then. I found his phone# in a Gun Digest...So I called and had a 2 hour talk with George. Great guy to talk with. Wished I had met him.

Jens,
Great idea! We can round up a couple of cronies and get some BBQ and such.
Also let you shoot my "modern" 1886 and 1895 leverguns with African DG loads. Then you will be better informed on just which ones to get for your self. mmm, I just happen to have an unfired 1895 .405 safe queen you might like to take home with you:

Nice .405.. I`ll think of this offer.

Do you have the book "The Winchester Lever legacy`by Clyde`Snooky´Williamson. I would say its a must-have for all lever guys who like the Browning patent Winchester. I called up this guy too...but he was just dead. Spoked to his wife however who informed me of this. In my before mentioned conversation with George Madis, George say Clyde was drinking Dr. Peppers all day and nothin` else so it was bound to come. Clyde was shootin` Winchesters all day long and drak Peppers. I would have loved to have met this guy too. Good tast in guns and sodas. I remember back when I had my time overthere Dr. Peppers and Lance cheezecrackers was my `Thang´..

I do have a couple of Winchester coffee table books, but not that one.