Is either of these safe in a marlin 45-70?

410 shotshells "work"... sorta...

And I'd consider them "safe", but it kinda ruins the shotshells (don't plan on reloading them)

I've run a box of them through my marlin over the years and even though I don't own a .410 I do keep a box of shells around, but all things considered I'd rather trust to my 357mag loaded with shotshells.

Why? simple, while I doubt there is a 45-70 on earth that you can't fire a 2-1/2" shotshell in without harming the firearm, but I've never seen one that will RELIABLY extract the fired case from the rifle's breech.


Personally I'm planning on loading shot shells for my Marlin, I just haven't gotten around to it.... and I've been meanin' to get to it for... Oh, 20 years or so...

AD

Yep Allan is right.
The 410 shells will fire most of the time in a 45-70 chambered rifle but they will not extract, the rim of the shell is much smaller than the standard 45-70 case.

I turned up some .020" thick brass washers to slip over the cases to improve the firing pin hit and also the help with extraction. It worked a treat but is a lot of effort to go to.

The heads on the shells get distorted quite a bit too, they really bulge out so don't plan on reloading them.

You would be far better off just loading up some 45-70 cases with some card wads and roll crimping the mouth of the case.

The shot patterns from the rifled barrel are appalling too, say 3' diameter at 10 yards.
If you are going to use them as snake charmers, make sure you are real close, 5 yards or less.

Thanks guys. I was asked to load some shot loads for a friend. He's got a takedown marlin as a survival/airplane gun in Ak. There is always a good chance of shooting small game for food and a birdshot load would seem best for something like grouse.

Can a 45-90 case be loaded this way and be made to function in the marlin? Just thinking of ways to get more shot in the pattern.

If you were doing this, how would you load the case.

Hmmmm, I think the 45-90 case is going to be far too long to chamber in a 45-70. Best just use factory 45-70 cases.

Just look up some 410 type loads in a shotgun reloading book of your choice and duplicate them, the Marlin action will easily handle the pressure of any shot load you can throw at it.

Just prime and load the cases with powder type/weight of choice as per ususal.
Then press 2 or 3 thick card wads firmly over the powder charge.
Dump in your shot, no.9's, simply because you can get a few more of them in there.....
Put another card wad or two over the shot charge and then run the loaded case into a standard roll cripming die on your press.

You will need to experiment with the thickness of the card, amount of shot and powder so when it comes to the crimping stage, the roll crimp slightly compresses the whole show.

I've done these a number of times and they work ok, keeping in mind the very thin pattern at anything over 20yds or so.
The rifling in the barrel tends to spray the pattern out very wide.
Snakes at 5yds or less will be toast though.

A fella might also want to play around with the collar button bullets or round ball gallery loads if small game in on the menu. Seems Marshall and the boys knocked this topic around a few years back http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=2143

I'm with nordrseta. instead of bird shot go with round ball loads. I played with them just for giggles and they were suprizingly accurate.

I made a swadge die and shoved some
.490 muzzle loader balls through a .460 hole in a steel plate with a small arbor press. Loaded over 6grains of American select right down to the powder. The shell mouth is rather fragile, but I bet it would work if you back filled with corn meal then seated the ball on top of that with a roll crimp into the side of the ball.
I didn't use any lube, but a quick roll through Lees tumble lube would take care of that.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty Marlin:
I made a swadge die and shoved some .490 muzzle loader balls through a .460 hole in a steel plate with a small arbor press. Loaded over 6grains of American select right down to the powder. The shell mouth is rather fragile, but I bet it would work if you back filled with corn meal then seated the ball on top.

With a case full of corn meal your squirrel will die breaded for the frying pan.

While we're on the topic of special loads, has anyone here played with the sort of 45/70 multiball loads described herein?

"Frankford Arsenal, Union Metallic Cartridge (UMC) Company, and Remington each produced triplex multiball loads. Based on the work of Capt. E.M. Wright, the Frankford Arsenal loads used three 133 grain round balls and 45 grains of black powder. Examples of these have been found using a copper case and the Benét Cup Inside Primer. The UMC multiball loads date from 1902-03 and use conventional primers and brass cases. (It is alleged that UMC only provided the cases, and Frankford manufactured the rounds in question.) Remington produced two million multiball cartridges during 1917 as old Springfield Trapdoors were being reissued to guards at various military installations." Retrieved from http://www.thegunzone.com/salvo.html 23 February 2008

Yes, the load has been updated to use smokeless powder by a couple of gunwriters over the years.

The most current 45-70 three round ball load I have used and the most accurate is 25 grains of H4198. Seat the top ball to its full diameter at the mouth and crimp moderately with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. All balls are within a 3" circle at 50 yards with my rifle. Nice home defense round.

One can also try light loads of faster powder.
13 grains IMR 700-X
14 grains Accurate #2
14 grains Bluedot
18 grains H2400
21 grains H4227
13 grains HS7
21 grains IMR4227
16 grains VV 3N37
20 grains VV N120
22 grains VV N130
14 grains VV N320
12 grains VV N350

Speer .457" round balls weigh 144 grains and Hornady .457" round balls weigh 143 grains.