i am tossing the idea around on picking up a long barreled winchester model 94 30/30 (24"to 26") and having it converted to the 30/30 ackley improved. can anyone tell me if i would have any feeding issues in the lever action, or is that what it was intended for.

A model 64 with an aperture rear sight is a joy to hunt with.
After lumbar and cervical fusion surgeries the 30/30 may be my hunting rifle for my remaining years.
My everyday rifle is a model 64A in 30/30 Ackley. After lots of rounds over a chronograph and comparing to a 64 deluxe, I'm pretty sure the Ackley isn't needed. Leverevolution powder is marvelous producing good speed and accuracy.

i hear what your saying so i wonder how the lvr powder would work with the improved

quote:

Originally posted by Tanoose:
i hear what your saying so i wonder how the lvr powder would work with the improved

It works in a 307.Should work just fine in an AI.You will only get a 3 to 4 grain increase over standard 30/30 so don`t expect more than 50 to 75 FPS increase ,if that.Just shooting a 30/30 in a 24 or 26" barrel makes a bigger difference.

I've lots of chronographed data in both the standard and the improved. I demand accuracy from my loads with velocity a second. The Ackley with Winchester cases, Winchester primers, 37 grains of LVR and a 170 partition runs 2380fps from a 24 inch barrel. This load is very accurate. A grain more runs 2434 but is not accurate. Thirty four grains in the standard case runs about 2400.
William Iorg has shot quite a few rounds in testing the imp. He had some fast loads but figured the pressures were in excess on fifty thousand psi. His data is on shooters forum. Interesting reading

450, I had lost touch with William Iorg. Good to see his name again. He helped me with my .25-35 Tomcat project.

Yes, he's got a lot of knowledge and shares it.
I made a mistake, the standard 30/30 loaded with 37 grains of LVR powder does 2400fps. This is hard on the heels of a 300 Savage at least in factory loadings. My 200 grain cast is very close to 35 Remington factory loads.
Thank you Hodgdon for leverevolution powder.

so your saying the standard 30/30 does better then the AI with 37 grains of LVR. And i am guessing that anything above 37 grains in the AI would produce pressures that are to high

I want an accurate consistent load first of all. It seems to me that a good load shots accurately and adding more powder decreases accuracy significantly. So I am happy with my 64A that will sometimes make groups that are almost one hole for three shots. The limiting factor is me of course.
My advice is buy a model 64 and an older Lyman 66 along with a redfield sourdough front. Shoot this for several hundred rounds in the field and at animals. I think you will like it as is.

Not sure where the 3-4 grn gain came from. The imp case holds 50 grns of water to the base of the neck, or about a 30% increase over the standard 30-30 case.
I have played with the imp enough to say there is a marked increase in vel. I did put a strain gauge on my 25/35 imp, a 336 marlin like my 30-30 imp. You will find a slight stickiness to the lever as soon as you step over the 40,000 threshold. The thin brass and the extraction will keep you from getting into dangerous levels of pressure from what I have learned.

The std. 30-30 has no flys on it..Its a perfect deer and bear round up to 200 or so yards..If the recoil is bothersome opt for the great unsung hero of rifledom, the 25-35..Ive shot many deer with it and half a dozen elk at ranges under 200 yards for the most part, and never lost an animal..

Probably the perfect solution for you would be the 250-3000 in a Sav. m-99 EG or 1950 FWT..or if you like bolt guns the Ruger Manlicher 18.5" barrel, what a nice rifle and caliber.

I played with the 30-30 IMP, and it showed me very little improvement when loaded to safe pressures..The 30-30 is a super deer killer up to 300 yards if you can hit one in the heart/lung area at that range..

I also tried the 30 ???, a 94 Win. using the 30-40 Krag case by an Arizona gunsmith, it was a postent caliber for the 94 win., but again you gained nothing much but bragging rights.

What Ive found that scalds some folks, is that the big bore lever guns are 200 yard guns just like the 30-30 and the 30-30 kills as well as the 45-70, 348, for instance at 200 yards. the results are the same a dead deer or elk with the shots in the heart/lung area.

For what it’s worth, with the 30-30AI, I understand improved case life is more noticeable than the velocity increase, and penetration of the 30 caliber bullet (170+ gr) is better too.

I’ve been drooling over this combo since reading Fadala’s book on the Win94, and his custom long barreled 30WCF in AI. He wrote everything about it was sweet, if what you want is a good receiver sighted long barreled 30-30.

Poo did you notice that in Fadala's book using a 170 grain bullet he got 2350 fps from a standard 30/30 case and 26" barrel (page 52)? He got the same velocity of 2350 fps from a 24" barrel and a 30/30 improved (page 60). He saved me some money because after reading that I lost interest in the Improved cartridge.
I miss his writing. The 30/30 book, his 22 book and his black powder book are great. I really enjoyed his articles in Gun Digest.

I can get 2350 with my long tom 30-30 and a bit more with my long round barrel 94 rifle in 25-35..

I found the slower 30-30 Win will penetrate more than the IMP version due to the lesser amount of bullet expansion as violent bullet expansion at higher velocity slows down the bullet in game and gives less penetration, that's expansion 101`with cup and core bullets, I wouldn't know about using monolithics in the 30-30 compared to Cup and core but Im sure the monolithic bullet will out penetrate a cup and core..I have shot one deer and teamed up on two elk with the Spitfire PMC bullets and they are monolithic and they all got exit holes about the size of a nickle and killed well..NOt sure they still make them but Barnes makes the same bullet it appears, they were 150s..A good 150 are 200 yard bullets for sure..My Trapper 30-30 gets a nickle size exit with corelokt 150 on deer about every time up to 250 yards, and its stumbling along at 1600 FPS I suspect. All this took place some 10 or 20 or more years ago. I tend to use my 338 on elk, and my 250 Sav., 308 or my 06 on deer these days with an occasion lazy walk with my 25-35 on deer behind the house if I can get a draw..

bobmn,

I remember Fadala wrote his improved brass lasted longer and that seemed more practical than the increase in velocity.

Repeating myself, but what I really appreciate was that custom 94 Fadala had; and his information on different handloads. And his “bullet trap” test showed his 30-30 penetrated further than a friend’s 243Win.... And he reported collecting plains antelope with his 94; that says something about his hunting & the 30-30. They should reprint the book. And sell a copy with every Lever 30-30.



FWIW, my Trapper is so handy & useful that I just can’t see not keeping it.

You may need to use a slower powder, but a 30% increase in capacity gives either, more velocity or lower pressure.
Just no way around it, unless you are in an alternate universe.

why not a 30-35 AI?

John, other than the fun inherent in playing with a new wildcat, what performance are you trying to achieve? I don't have my Ackley books here at the house but for all I know Parker may have already done it. That is no means a negative if you are interested.

performance? with a lever action? for me, strictly fun, hunting out to 200 yds, accuracy at 3"/100 yds. and did i say fun?

Sounds like fun to me + besides we have to spend our money on something. I'd like a dollar for every abstract wildcat I came up with.

The best thing about a 30-30 IMP and many other rounds is brass cases last longer with less trimming...As far as IMP with a 30-30 one is spinning their wheels...Ive shot many deer and some elk with the 30-30 carbine and a mod. 64..My latest is a SRC ring action with a 64 front end on it. Called a Reinner special..and its a dandy rifle, an all time favorite..BTW the short barrel on my old trapper show more penetration than any other 30-30 Ive owned and that's been many..slowed down velocity, a bit less expansion, and you get more penetration. The Africans have known that for ions, Americans can't seem to accept that with those who have a chronograph, they know that..But bullet construction can change the picture, The advent of the monolithic changed the whole shebang.