I am looking a picking up a Marlin Guide Gun for a special hunt. Which of the two calibers are recommended? .45-70 Govt. or the .450 marlin?

I have only had a .444 in the past and do not have any experience with either of these.

Thanks,

Sam
eclemmons@hotmail.com

I'd get the .45-70. Ammo is more readily available. Secondly, loaded to the same pressures the .45-70 outperforms the .450 M.

Sam,
Just take the 444, that's more than enuff gun for anything on this continent.
Otherwise, hell, after all, who needs a reason for another gun?, go for the 45/70, as long as you reload. Lots more options there.
Got a tackdriver of a load in my Marlin 1895SS worked out last night. Won't shoot for a hill of beans in my H&R 'Buffalo Hunter' though, lol. 300gr hardcast doing 1600fps, a real lightweight, but the last shot in the fading twilight cut the center out of the 1 1/4" stick on red dot at a 100yds that I'd been sighting in with . Welllll, I said, must be time to go home,,,,
{;o).
Take care,
R*2

R*2,

Thanks. I do not have the .444 any more. That's why I am now in the market for a big bore lever gun. It was one of those that you think back and wish you had never let it go.

Sam

Big Sam,

My cousin's boy is named Sam and he is big..VERY big, like 6'7" and 400 pounds, size 19 shoes and wouldn't hurt a fly.

Get the 45-70. I predict the 450 Marlin will fade away in a few years anyway. There is nothing wrong with the 450 and it uses a very strong case. It was developed because people are hot-rodding the old 45-70 and the case isn't as strong. But, it is strong enough for sane people and can be loaded to the point that will bring tears to a giant's eyes when touched off. I shoot a 400 grain bullet over 41.5 grains of Re7 in my Marlin 45-70. It shoots hard, is comfortable and accurate.

Buy the 45-70.

I don't know what kind of 'special hunt' you're having but the 45-70 is more versatile .Factory ammo is available over a wide range loadings and the PMC load matches the factory 450. The 45-70 works very well for all kinds of game without having to make a 458 mag out of it.I wonder too how long the 450 will be made .

Have you hugged YOUR 45-70 today? It is indeed a champion amongst champions!
Russ

The 45/70 simply for the reasons of brass and charisma.

45-70 Gov't.



Why would any one want a belted 45-70 (450 Marlin) when the original is still around?

I am suprised. Not one vote for the 450. I have no experence with the Marlin. After I bought my 45/70 I saw no need to look elsewhere. So the trend continues.

Here's one vote for the 450! I love mine- 3/4 in 3 shot group @ 100 yds. Since I reload the cost is nearly the same as the 45/70 ,450 brass is slighly higher. I sure hope the 450 survives, if not I will stock up on new brass!

Big Sam,

what is your special hunt and wh ya marlin lever big bore mate ? Wouldn't be for the Big Five would it

PS I love my marlin 45/70 I load rem & woodleigh 405's they shoot the same. Woodleigh's 405 gr flat point is made by them especially for the 45/70 and it truly is a wonder fule bullet great penetration and awsome expansion but it still does not fly apart...perfect at 45/70 speeds !!

I have a second 45/70 on the way in the form of a 1886 reproduction Extra Lite. I have a Lyman reciver site sitting here for it and I am leaning toward zeroing for woodleighs as well. I tried the 300 gr sierra's but I felt they where to soft, they kill grassy's well like lightening infact but sometimes I did not get exits, the 405 rems give me exits and expansion, though not quite as "chain Lightening" They are better for hogs etc.

The 350 Hornady and Barnes X are also bullets I would like to try.

BS ,



I absolutely 'crack' over any AMERICAN made rifle in stainless.



For the stainless reason alone I'd buy the Marlin 45-70,GG; as soon as Marlin get's their collective heads out of their one big a z z and make full size stainless levers in .22, 357, 444, 45-70, 450 then my soul would not rest till I had a couple of each...gonna take them with me to the big great hunting grounds.



As for my opinion about which caliber to choose, I have none! At the same range of 150 yards or less, my stainless(Marlin) thutty-thutty will kill'em just as dead!

My vote goes for the 45-70. I just love mine.

I prefer the .45-70. The availability of ammo is one of the main reasons. In my experience, the cor-bon, buffalo bore, garret, etc. loads exceed the performance of the .450

The 45-70 for sure.The boy's that came up with the .450 Marlin and "one load" for all must have been drunk.Unfourtuanately it doesn't work that way.

Jayco.

PC.?
You Wrote :
Big Sam,

what is your special hunt and wh ya marlin lever big bore mate ? Wouldn't be for the Big Five would it

PS I love my marlin 45/70 I load rem & woodleigh 405's they shoot the same. Woodleigh's 405 gr flat point is made by them especially for the 45/70 and it truly is a wonder fule bullet great penetration and awsome expansion but it still does not fly apart...perfect at 45/70 speeds !!
Just want are ? 45/70 speed's?

I have a second 45/70 on the way in the form of a 1886 reproduction Extra Lite.

Nice Rifle ...And a good one for convertion to a large cal/ Like 50 Alaskan or 50-110

I have a Lyman reciver site sitting here for it and I am leaning toward zeroing for woodleighs as well. I tried the 300 gr sierra's but I felt they where to soft
The 300 Grain bullet made by Sierra is ment for a 45/70 .and it's ment to be shot at 45/70 speed's
It was just designed to run through old springfield's and older 45/70's

, they kill grassy's well like lightening infact but sometimes I did not get exits, the 405 rems give me exits and expansion, though not quite as "chain Lightening" They are better for hogs etc.

The 350 Hornady and Barnes X are also bullets I would like to try.
Barn's make's great bullet's And so does Woodleigh

There are those that post on this board that make there own jacketed bullet's as well It really come's down to what.! your hunting ..how far your shooting. and what you want your bullet's to do on impact
As for the 450 Marlin or the 45/70 there really is no diffrent's between the two .And i would hate to have to start hacking off the top's of my .416 Rem case's just to make shell case's for the 450 marlin if thay stop making the round...
The GS i have is just fine

After so many excellent posts and various conversations, I have decided on the .45-70 in a Marlin Guide Gun.

I will try the lead bullets first to see how they do. I expect that I will have a 'specialist' work on it to get the best accuracy and function that I can. I plan on putting an Aim Point ML2 scope on it.

The type of hunting that I have in mind for this rig is hog hunting, which can involve moving game; deer & bear hunting in the thick swamps of my home county at the southern coast of N.C. There are several areas there that I hunt that the shots are close and fleeting.

And...............most importantly of all........I wanted another gun, unlike anything that I currently have. Another project, if you will.

Thanks to everyone for their input and civility.

Cheers,

Sam
eclemmons@hotmail.com

Martin,

I consider 45/70 speeds for the 405 gr variety of bullets to be around 1600-1800 fps, the woodleigh 405 gr 45/70 bullet is one tough bullet.

I originally bought the repro 1886 for a conversion to 50-110, but it will be on the back burner for a while now...so I will enjoy it as a 45/70.

Sam I have a leupold 2.5x compact on my marlin 45/70 in warne fixed mounts and I reckon it is ideal and suits the gun as well as being one of the toughest scopes in existence.

PC

Martin,

my 45/70 405 gr loads would not be doing more than 1750 fps...I would think that in a marlin 2000 fps with the 405 gr might be a little hot I am not sure.

Is there a stainless lever brwoning out ?? I reckon you will have a great rig with a lever .458 winnie !!

I would like to hear more about it !!

The 50-110 project could be a long way off.....at least I have the rifle/action. I have heard that the 1886 repor's are made quite well. I am awaiting the export licence from the states to get in to Australia.

Martin,
My Marlin maybe able to stand a 405 grain bullet at 2000 fps, but I can't! At 7 pounds my Marlin kicks pretty hard with 300 grain bullets at 2100 fps.
So you're really going to convert that Browning lever to .458 Win.Mag.?

Description: Browning BLR light weight, stainless steel, laminate stock, available calibers 270 win and 300 WSM. NEW in box
Price: $829.00
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976465415.htm
There's one ..If your going to get one get the long action and buy it now that are rare to find....

I would like to wait before going over board ..
It's not been test fired yet...
It does not even have the barrel for it yet all that i have
is the front and back sight's .I have already payed the smith for the reamer's i am keeping the stock becouse it's
laminate look's ugly as sin though..
Once i get it back i will post picture's of it right now i have my new.! 9.3x64 ..Well not yet it's all there and the barrel's on and the stock's been set the barrel band's on the lug's are all fitted...He even has the 9 1/2 barrel rib on and the 3 leaf sight's fitted ..He was ship ? for some unknown reason the wrong front sight it's just a plain out banded front sight..
John a buddy of mine keep's telling me i need to get a good
camera mine's the free one i got for signing up with
Earthlink 3 year's ago the picture's are.! sooo fuzzy
and so out of focus...It's hard to tell what's really in the picture...I pulled all the pohoto's i had down off the net becouse people thought thay were fake's...Owell....
If thay don't belive me thay are more then welcome to call the smith them self's.!!

As for the 45/70 I hate like hell to say this but well i over charged it with the wrong powder
It's a long story but it popped the action openand the case's stuck thay had to be driven out ..I contacted two
Powder company's ..One who's powder it was and the other company who powder i thought i had used...
The message i got back has a disclamer on it ..
This is one letter
=========================================================
This matter has come up before. A couple years ago, the same thing happened and persons Marlin 45-70 was completely destroyed. I am thankful that you were not hurt. Alliant RL 7 and Accurate Arms #7 are very different in burn speed. I do not know what the Accurate can looks like, however, I think that you should take this issue up with the store. Their clerk made a serious mistake and he should be educated so as not to do it again. My personal opinion is that it is courting trouble to name a powder in such a similar manner to another when the two have completely different burning speeds. As far as that goes, all I can say is that RL 7 was there first. At any rate, I am glad that you are okay. Please let me know if you have any additional questions or comments. Have a nice day.

Ben Amonette
Consumer Service Manager
Alliant Powder Company
www.alliantpowder.com

---------------------------------------------------------
There are three more letter's and a phone call
i made to Alliant Powder Company .
------------------
I also emailed Accurate Powder company and phoned them
as well ... there message's say right on the header's
THIS LETTER IS NOT TO BE POSTED NOR MADE AVALABLE TO THE PUBLIC..... Nice guy's ahh
I can tell you the breach pressure was 86.000 PSI
In the load that's what thay told me .In the letter
I took the rifle to Pisco's and had it checked out
For head spacing ...Here's the real catch it was not just MY Marlin GS 45/70 but another one as well both the marlin GS's passed --No head spacing both shot the same load
This was not my intent to try and prove anything it was a case of me trusting a gunshop owner to give me what i asked for and never looking to make sure i got it before filling the hopper's with all three can's.. i had 5 box's ready to go
Thank god the rifle's held together....
All that happened was the lever's popped open about 1 inch and froze tight...
So now you know ....Man i felt like a darn fool
one of my buddy could have been killed becouse i was not carefull and there not one single excuse for it
I have 40 year's of reloading and bullet making behind me and there were 3 other's there that have as much if not more year's behind them and none of us cought it ..Till the rifle's were fired.......
----------------------------

Hay ..John ..!! Er Doc.! tell holahan behind ya ..I honey
You must have been posting at the same time i was writing that really.!!! long winded post...

Well John your really old ..
And can't take it any more anyway kinda like
richy-Aka farm boy Richard Told me that he had heard some guy might be think about buying him out ...
He say's the guy might even live in Coos Bay?
Majin that..!!! I told him only if he come's with the deal.....Cause i an't slaving out there with out help ...Not that a Farm boy's of much help .!!

Pottsy

Jayco,

thanks for the data mate...that is another product not in Australia.

Martin, the Browning stainless lever is not in Oz as far as I know or I would be tempted to get one. Your rifle will be great and I would like to see photo's of the finished rig.

Take Care, PC.

That model never made it to Aus !! I reckon that would be a ball tearer in .458 winnie I would love one...other cals could be .416 Taylor.

Hi PC-Buffalo Bore loads there 405 Remington in 45-70 at 40,000 CUP for 2,005 fps in a 22 inch Barrel.Many think that 40,000 CUP is to low for an operating max pressure in the 1895 action which could be validated by Marlins two new calibers in the same action the .480 and .475 Linebaugh with higher pressures than 40,000 CUP and in the same action.

Best of luck....Jayco.

Back in the early 1980s when I got my 444, my hunting buddy had to do a one up on me and bought a 45/70 marlin.

Keith was a handloader.,and always loaded up everything HOT,

I know he use to claim that he got into 458 Win Mag territory with the 45/70. I can believe it from him.

However, I never saw any more terminal performance out of his 45/70 than I saw out of my 444, so I never went any further on getting a 45/70.

A 444 with a 300 grain XTP, does whatever I need it to do, at the ranges of a lever action any day. Never had a stand off with a grizzly or kodiak bear with it, but if they can absorb a 444 and 300 Gr XTP, round, I need a lot bigger bullet than that then.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

seafire/ B17G

What mod/ type is your 444 marlin

Mine is a T mod 5 in the tube 24 inch micro/

Have you ever run any other type bullet's down her barrel beside's stock round's from /Speer./sierra./hornady./Reminton./ Etc..

Have you tried any custon stuff in her or have you swaged any or cast any for the 444 yet.?

Somtime's i think a thiner jacket is better
somthing like a 0.0100 in a 220 work great on deer
It lets it roll back better/ mushroom out ...

444 marlin great rifle

And i would hate to have to start hacking off the top's of my .416 Rem case's just to make shell case's for the 450 marlin if thay stop making the round...

Martin - I'm afraid that the 450 case uses a different belt dimension than other belted magnums cases. The belt is wider(longer) to prevent complete chambering/firing of the short round in other rifles, like the 416 Rem, 300 Weatherby, 8mm Rem Mag, etc. In these chambers, the whole 450 Marlin round would fit into the large diameter body area of the normal belted mag - just imagine the disaster if you were able to chamber and fire it in there! Hold up a 450 case next to any normal belted mag case and note that the distance from the rim to the front of the belt is longer on the 450.

In short, you can't convert any existing belted mag case into a 450 Marlin case - and if they ever quit making this stuff, you better have a stash of brass saved up! There is only one logical choice: 45-70 maxman