I was wondering if the new trails end 25-35 could be rechambered for the 25-35 ackley improved version.Are there still dies for this caliber?It is up to 600 fps faster than the 25-35.It is right up there with the 250 savage when this rechambering is done.I had a 25-35 in a Savage model 99 that a friend let me use .It was fun as heck to shoot.I still have about two boxes of 25-35 left.It would make the 25-35 into an awesome little deer gun in the inproved version.

If I look at water capacity of the cases:
256 Win mag 22 gr
25/222 25.5 gr
25-35 37 gr
250 Sav 45.5 gr
257 Rob 59.5 gr
257 RAI 63 gr
25-06 66 gr
257 Weatherby 85 gr

The absolute max velocity for 75 gr Vmax is about 3650 fps in 35-25 and 3950 in 257 RAI. That is a difference of 300 fps for 26 extra ccs of case volume. How much case volume does the 25-35 Ackley have?

Of course, I don't doubt that 25-35 Ackley can get 600 fps over the 25-35 factory or book loads, but so can the 25-35 when handloaded.

The Ackley will get you about 200 to 250 FPS, not 600 FPS with a 117 gr. bullet and the twist on those old rifles never is good for lighter bullets..

I have owned and shot a lot of 25-35s in both Imp. and std., I will take the std every time...In fact I shot my first truck load of deer and my first 3 or 4 elk with a 25-35 Mod 94 Carbine...Used properly up to a 100 yards with Corelokt 117 gr. bullets, its a good killer of most big game....

Ray,
I am haunted by one of your posts:

the 160 gr. GS HV bullet....It will break both shoulders of an elk and leave and exit hole about 1.5" , and lots of blood.......

What did the 25-35 do to the animals?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clark:
If I look at water capacity of the cases:
256 Win mag 22 gr
25/222 25.5 gr
25-35 37 gr
250 Sav 45.5 gr
257 Rob 59.5 gr
257 RAI 63 gr
25-06 66 gr
257 Weatherby 85 gr

The absolute max velocity for 75 gr Vmax is about 3650 fps in 35-25 and 3950 in 257 RAI. That is a difference of 300 fps for 26 extra ccs of case volume. How much case volume does the 25-35 Ackley have?

Of course, I don't doubt that 25-35 Ackley can get 600 fps over the 25-35 factory or book loads, but so can the 25-35 when handloaded.

---

Clark et al,
A quick play with the cartridge designer feature of RCBS.Load shows a substantial increase for an Ackley Imp 25-35 over the standard cartridge. This with .015" body taper and the neck shortened to .400". With a boolit seated to .400"; 26.2gr vs 40.3gr of water. Empty case, 32.3 vs 45.5.
I would say a very usefull improvement indeed.
Cheers,
R*2

If that is the case then the 25-35AI should be in the 250 Sav volume size class and capable of 220 fps more than the 25-35 at the same pressure with a 100 gr bullet.

Clark,
I'd say within limitations of the particular firearms commonly chambered for same. The Savage 99 is a very strong action, and the 250 Savage case is much more substantial than the 25-35.
The next jump is to the Roberts Imp at ~ 60gr of capacity, and then last but not least, the 25-06. In terms of cartridge 'efficiency' though, I think the 25-35Imp and the 250 are probably just about ideal.
Cheers,
R*2

I have the 25-35 RCBS dies, lots of 30-30 brass, lots of 25 cal bullets, and lots of rifle actions.

I am going to get some more 25 cal barrels and a 25-35 reamer.

If I EVER run accross a deal on 25-35AI dies, I may get a 25-35AI reamer.

The best I could do for the 75 gr. VMAX in my .25-35 was 2800 fps.

I much prefer the factory load or near equivalent of 117 gr. RN at 2300 fps or so. The cartridge is wonderful when used within it's limitations. The sharply tapered case shows those limitations when pressures rise much above 38K CUP.

Hobie's right about this, those old cartridges were designed around a certain bullet at a certain velocity and usually that's where you get your best accuracy. You can bump the speed up and play around with them but I think they shoot great and work just fine where they are at now. JMO

Call me blind, but I can't see any features of the 25-35 that make it not a high velocity cartridge.

A higher pressure case and more over square than a .308.

Clark,
The one I'm having a lot of fun with is the 25-20, another candidate for an AImp variation. See my posts over on the cast bullet board, and take a look at the C80-258 TL design that we got done by Lee. A hoot to shoot, and accuracy is excellent.
Cheers,
R*2

I reread the article about the 25-35 ackley improved in the Gun digest .It was the 100 gr bullet that was boosted 600 fps faster.The article said to use 30-30 brass necked down because it was thicker.I think the 375 win brass would be even better.They got 3000 fps with the 100 gr bullet with the 25-35 ackley improved.I also found a 35-35 tomcat about the same thing.He got almost 2600fps with the 117 gr hornady.It should make the 25-35 a better deer cartridge .I am going to try it when they come out for sure.

clark,
That was an 8x57 and a deer, if I said elk it was incorrect..

A 25-35 will leave a nickle size exit on a deer unless you break a shoulder then it stops under the off skin...On elk it will not pass through but will stop on the off side skin, I have never broken the shoulder on an elk with it as I stay off the shoulder and double lung shoot elk with any light caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by Hobie:
The best I could do for the 75 gr. VMAX in my .25-35 was 2800 fps.

Well, I don't have a 25-35, but my .25 Remington (which is almost identical in case capacity) with a 22" barrel does 2900 fps with a 90 grain Sierra without any strain. In fact, I'd judge the pressure to be well under 40,000 CUP from the appearance of the fired cases and primers and the lack of any hesitation in unlocking the action or rechambering the spent brass. This is with IMR 3031.

I once posted:

quote:

they could probably push the 25-35 100 gr at 2700 fps.

And got manuer cart of flames for my irresponsible post.

rec.guns post

Clark,

I agree that the 25/35 case would make a darn good varmint cartridge, but in a bolt action. A lever just will not give you the accuracy you are looking for. A single shot say a Ruger Number one would be kinda cool in 25/35.

I can't see why someone would want to reamer out a new 25/35 to an Ackley Improved tho.

Clark, If you want to drop me an email on making a 25/35 in a bolt action, or making the bolt action a single shot for a 25/35, I'd sure like to take a look at that.

Hope all is well.

cheers
seafire

Will do.
I am putting a 30-30 surplus barrel on a 91/30 bolt action.
If it works and I can get it to feed with a spacer in the right side of the magazine, I will order some surplus 257 barrels and a 257 reamer.

I have been doing some butchering, er amateur gunsmithing on 91/30 bolt actions that are dirt cheap, strong enough for anything, and good for rimmed cases. I have done some scope mounts and a 45/70. Here are some pictures I posted on another forum:

SPORTERIZING 91/30s
I made a scope mount/ring welding fixture to put a FAC AK47 cast steel
mount [cut down to 1/3 it's size] on a 91/30 reciever.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=20134
Welded:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=20368
452/70 wildcat uses 45/70 brass and 45acp bullets
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=127760
Dennis' scope mount anodized for 91/30s and Williams side mount rings
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=257405
Glass bedding 91/30 with two pillars and tape under sear to decrease
trigger spring
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=926374
http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/iB_html/uploads/post-1-82623-GlassDualPillar91_30DSCF0039small.jpg

The 25-35 is just fine as is, in my view. The A/I version (per Ackley) yielded one of the best increases in velocity of any of his A/I cartridges, hard on the heels of the 257 Roberts. What sense that makes in these days of 25-06 factory rifles I don't know, but there it is there.

My flatband carbine will stay as issued, thank you. Hornady 117 RN @ 2200 FPS will do for the coyote-sized blacktails and sub-compact muleys I chase in California.

Thinking the capabilities of the 25-35 AI are platform limited more than anything else. Ackley's purpose with his improved cases was to allow higher velocity with the same pressure. If you put the 25-35 in something besides a lever gun I don't doubt you can get a lot more bounce from it. The AI variation of the 25-35 was one of his favorite children, perhaps as much as the AI Bob, but he sought that improvement for the benefit of the levergun mostly. He wrote that the cartridge was on equal footing with the .250 Savage, which was on par with factory loadings of the Roberts for lighter bullets. The 25-35 AI in a levergun is an oxymoron in my eye, forever saddled by the need for RN bullets, forever barred from realizing its potential. In other type actions it may stretch its little wings and soar, but that is another story.

DD,
Have you done any experimentation or calculation about the need for round nosed bullets in tubes?

I am thinking about designing some experiments, but if you have already done the work.....

Clark--

I see during my absence you lost none of your intrepid nature. How good izzat?

No one seems to argue that the 25-20 special flat nosed bullets are not needed, and yet I read that someone got a round to go off in a 450 Alaskan. The threshold of danger is somewhere in between. I was thinking of making a tube drop test to find the energy needed to set off a primer and compare that to what is available with the hottest loads, free recoil, and lightest rifles out there. Becuase of the different thicknesses, there would be one standard for rifle primers and another for pistol primers. I would put AP bullets in the lathe and cut a firing pin shape and try plastic tipped bullets and see if they can do anything.

Clark, I have not. I'm not as leary as some on that subject but have my envelope nonetheless. My thoughts are that several issues are involved in a magazine detonation, pointy bullets are not entirely at fault. I say this after observing that the Hornady 150 gr RN(.308) pretty much beats hell out of primers in my 30-30 and they do not go off. The 170 gr FP does not. So, meplat size relative to primer size is an issue, as well as shape. Obviously recoil impulse is of significance, but only to the degree that it overcomes spring tension and inertia of ammo in the tube magazine. Is the magizine full, leaving little room for travel, or does the ammo stack have a chance to build velocity for a secondary whack?

Most tube mag blowup results that I've seen(4) have occured near the action/forearm area, probably a hint there if one considers the motion dynamics. It is spectacular by all accounts, yet I've not seen significant injury as a result. I met a reloader a few years back that loaded his model 94 with spitzers, said no problem. I don't want to stand beside him at the range. I would like to watch from behind with a camcorder though.

quote:

Originally posted by Clark:
No one seems to argue that the 25-20 special flat nosed bullets are not needed, and yet I read that someone got a round to go off in a 450 Alaskan. The threshold of danger is somewhere in between. I was thinking of making a tube drop test to find the energy needed to set off a primer and compare that to what is available with the hottest loads, free recoil, and lightest rifles out there. Becuase of the different thicknesses, there would be one standard for rifle primers and another for pistol primers. I would put AP bullets in the lathe and cut a firing pin shape and try plastic tipped bullets and see if they can do anything.

Clark & Dan,
Been faced with the situation just today. Got my hands on a Marlin 1894CL in 218 Bee. The two 'standard' bullets are the Horndady 45gr HP and the Speer FNC, both ballistically woeful, ~.1 . I also got with my Midway order a hunnert of the Rem 46gr bulk HP's, listed BC of .209, very much a RN type, though with no exposed lead on that nose.
Now I realise that the Bee is a fairly low energy/recoil round, and that scale has a lot to do with the possibility of magazine detonation in a levergun. But to satisfy myself as to the safety of loading up the magazine, I attempted to get a primed case to fire using one of the said Rem HP's. A vise and a hammer sufficed as the scientific test equipment. I couldn't get a Fed205M primer to go off, or rather I stopped with a faily mushed primer. Chambering said test round , it DID go off with the proper firing pin strike. The Rem nose incidentally is substantially smaller than the primer itself, but the ring I ended up with on the test primer was on the outer circumference of the base. The pin strike hits directly over the anvil.
A test fire this afternoon led to no visible signs of damage to the primer whatsoever and I'm confident now that I have no worries with a full magazine with at least this particular bullet.
Cheers,
R*2

Dan,
On the 25-35Imp in a lever, wassamatter with a 2 shot rifle?? (;o).
R*2

I wonder how tough it would be to rebarrel or sleeve the existing barrel of a Savage 340 bolt action .30-30 to .25-35?

Read the faq on sleeving at Brownell's.

I am having enough troble finding a 25-35 reamer.

quote:

Originally posted by Clark:
Read the faq on sleeving at Brownell's.

I am having enough troble finding a 25-35 reamer.

www.mansonreamers.com

Cheers,
R*2