I'm considering re-lining the 16" 30-30 Trapper barrel to 38-55. The rifle is in fine condition and is quite accurate but, with the 16" barrel, the already mild 30-30 round barely makes 1500fps with 150g factory ammo. My thinking is the much larger .375" bore, with it's greater expansion ratio, would not be hurt as badly as the .308 by the 16" barrel length.

Although this 30-30 AE Trapper is not the stronger 375 Winchester "Big Bore" model it was also offered in 44 mag/45 Colt and has what might almost be called a bull barrel..740" at the muzzle. The 48th edition Lyman manual lists 30-30 loads with pressures up to about 38,000 C.U.P. The same manual lists 44 mag pressures at about the same level, however my older Hornady manual shows 40,000 C.U.P. for the 44 mag. None of the listed Lyman 38-55 loads exceed about 25,000 C.U.P. So, unless I'm missing something, I should safely be able use 375 Winchester STARTING loads for 255g bullets, none of which exceed about 37,000 C.U.P. Of course such loads would be considered maximum and only used occasionally for short range pig hunting. They would be reduced at least 20% for all other shooting.

I know "if it ain't broke don't fix it" but in this case the rifle just sits in the rack because I have no confidence in it's stopping power. Comments?....

Jon

should be an easy conversion. A rebore and possibly a bit of feeding work. Assuming a barrel made for smokeless (post 1900) I would feel comfortable working up to 375 winchester starting loads, but honestly a 255 gain bullet will wack alot harder than the 170 grainer, even without jacking up the speed.

I have killed a couple of deer and so has my brother with a Winchester 16" Trapper in 30/30.

Worked perfect.

If it would make you feel better try some Hornady 160gr LeverEvolution ammmo.
I have used it in my 20" Heym 0/U, and still got great expansion on a coyote at 166 yards.
I have also shot a few deer and pigs with it from @30 yards to 100 yards and it kills great. Complete penetration, with good expansion.

I have owned a trapper that belonged to my granddad and it is super accurate with 150 gr. corelokts and in fact with about any load..

I have shot many deer with it, and about 5 elk in my youth. It killed them just fine..I think your chronograph is off or your guestamating your velocity..I get an average fo 2054 FPS with my trapper and the 150 gr. Corelokts.

I have used the 38-55 and as far as killing power goes I prefer the 30-30 hands down.

I have a Model 94 Winchester Chief Crazy Horse commerative in 38-55 that I killed my first black bear with last September in Idaho.

While I am not a fan of the 30-30, I go along with what these other folks are saying, work with the gun as is. The 30-30 has killed a lot of game in its lifetime all thay is neccessary is some work on the shooters end of the equation. JMO.

What the man sez, and I would add keep the range within 200 yards as a rule, although I killed many deer at extending ranges with a 30-30 in my mispent and careless youth..I developed a great respect for the little cartridge..Remember the 300 Wby is a 30-30 at some point in its travel across the big canyons and lots of folks call it a 1000 yard rifle. Those same folks sometimes condem the 30-30, go figure.

I have also shot deer with the 38-55 and its not a bit better than a 30-30, in fact its not as effective, and anyone that tells different is bloviating.

I have a 375 (rechambered from 30-30) on a Marlin 336. Jes Ocumpaugh in Oregon did the rebore. he also does work on Win 94s. It shoots well.

I have no affiliation with him - but his website is http://35caliber.com/3.html

Good luck with your project.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
What the man sez, and I would add keep the range within 200 yards as a rule, although I killed many deer at extending ranges with a 30-30 in my mispent and careless youth..I developed a great respect for the little cartridge..Remember the 300 Wby is a 30-30 at some point in its travel across the big canyons and lots of folks call it a 1000 yard rifle. Those same folks sometimes condem the 30-30, go figure.

I have also shot deer with the 38-55 and its not a bit better than a 30-30, in fact its not as effective, and anyone that tells different is bloviating.

Probably using black powder as ancient as you are???? They do make smokeless loads for 38-55 these days!

quote:

Probably using black powder as ancient as you are???? They do make smokeless loads for 38-55 these days!

Yes, and the smokeless powder factory loads, when you can find them are underpowered because of all the old guns still in use.

Another consideration is that 38-55's are notorious for bore diameters that range fom .375 up to .380.

I have a Model 94 Winchester Chief Crazy Horse Commerative and it sprays .375 diameter bullets all over the place but does real good with .377 diameter Barnes Originals.

I like the 38-55, but at best it is a 150 yard white tail gun. A 30-30 with the new leverevolution ammo is a better choice.

I too have a crazyhorse in 38-55. It likes cast bullets at .379. My bore is right at .378. Have only shot a groundhog and no deer with it. A 250 grainer cast bullet will flat kill a groundhog at 60 yards.

I think with the right bullet it should walk all over a 30-30 in terms of killing power. Then again, I don't own a 30-30, but do have the 38-55, 32 special and 25-35. Truth of the matter is that it is harder to kill a cat than an eastern white tail. Does not take very much.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Probably using black powder as ancient as you are???? They do make smokeless loads for 38-55 these days!

Yes, and the smokeless powder factory loads, when you can find them are underpowered because of all the old guns still in use.

Another consideration is that 38-55's are notorious for bore diameters that range fom .375 up to .380.

I have a Model 94 Winchester Chief Crazy Horse Commerative and it sprays .375 diameter bullets all over the place but does real good with .377 diameter Barnes Originals.

I like the 38-55, but at best it is a 150 yard white tail gun. A 30-30 with the new leverevolution ammo is a better choice.

I have had very poor performance from the leverevolution ammo. But-- I do like the Barnes 150 grains in the 30-30. My 38-55 is .375 diameter and shoots like a dream.

quote:

I think with the right bullet it should walk all over a 30-30 in terms of killing power.

A person would think that, and with good handloads it does do a good job, within its limits.

From my experince however, the shape of the case and the diameter and weight of the bullets seem to work against it in actual hunting situations.

I've been away from AR for a long time and had forgotten about this thread. I've since re-lined the Trapper to 38-55 and fired it a bit.

A little background: This all began with a friends Win. 94 "Legendary Fronteersman" that he said he could not hit a "flock of barndoors" with. It had the problem common with these guns; a .380" groove/.373" bore and a chamber mouth cut for a .375" bullet. I honed the neck area of the chamber to accept a .381" Lee 255g cast bullet and it's now quite accurate. With a Lyman manual 38-55 "starting load" of 31.5g IMR3031 velocities (10 rounds) are 1749 to 1784 fps.

The Trapper liner has the standard .368"/.375" bore & groove. I have some 265g .377" cast bullets "on order" and have only fired a few 250g, .375" jacketed bullets pulled from the "wimpy" Winchester factory ammo. With the same 31.5g IMR3031 the 16" Trappers velocities (5 rounds)are 1724-1754fps. This is the result I'd hoped for and I think it confirms that (at these velocities anyway) a 16" barrel hurts a .308" bullet a lot more than it does a .375". I think the Trapper is going to be a great little short range pig shooter and I hope to find out in a couple months.