I decided to keep my Model 71 despite a couple offers and trades.
Also, been checking into the big bore Alaskan conversions available. So far the cost is anywhere from $900 to $1500
I've been looking into Doug Turnbull, Reg Nonneman and Harry McGowan.
www.turnbullrestoration.com
www.leveractions.com

Does Harry McGowan have a website?
Who else does these conversions?
Can anyone tell me of their experiences with having this type of work done?

Thanks,

GordM

or_carr@yahoo.com If your bent on mutilation,that guys done a wack of em in the past.See if he can help you.

Z-Hat Custom Guns is another gunsmith that will do these conversions. Link below:

http://www.z-hat.com

Would have been nice to have you tell me THAT since I have all the paperwork ready with the FFL and the MO for you.
Not nice.
Frank

Bwana-be,
Easy on Frank now. We actually weren't too far off from finalizing a deal. I can't blame him if he's got a bit of a grudge with me now. Although I did email him before making this post.

Perhaps he will email me his home address so I can send him a couple Cohibas or Monte Cristo's to compensate him for inconvenience and let his grudge go.

GordM

Oh, and Gord. Check out the old articles republished in "Big Bore Rifles and Cartridges," on the subject. In there, it is mentioned that the 50 has the edge on energy over the 458 and 416, if you aren't concerned with trajectory. But a 350g 416 going ~2250fps would quite a job.

Hold on fellas.Lets take a look at these posts.We're looking for brass,we're going to reload,we might sell,no we're not,we might convert,oh thats up in the air now.Look,I can tell you from having seen much of this planet,but unfortunately having to come to rest here for the last decade or so,zigging and zagging will be and is the canadian way.I got a buck double or nothing to all takers that says after all this fishing is done,the sum total will either be a hack job,a quick sale,or most likely a big goose egg.So my well meant advise is save anymore breath,there will be a day you will need it for a real purpose.

Geez, Frank. The guy never even posted it for sale. You started talking like it was yours as soon as he mentioned he thought he might like to sell it.
Don't get psycho just b/c you jumped the gun.

Actually, Gord, you and Frank must not be aware of the permits required for this to cross the border. He needs the import permits and you needed the export permits (about 6 months wait)and don't even mention sending tobacco. I was sent 3 cigars a few years ago and it cost me $65 duty to the courier to find out what it was!
Besides, your 71 commands a good price up here, .....I pick them up occasionally, now have 6 plus a Browning. The one that was written up in Big Bores by Wolfe Publishing a few years ago went from .348 to .450 Alaskan to .50 Alaskan to .416 Alaskan to .348Imp/.416 is sitting in the vault downstairs! There's good smiths in the Canadian west that would do the conversion for you. ......But hell, you don't need anything bigger for those runt-sized moose around the old Waterways!
~Arctic~

Arctic,

I would be delighted to find a Canadian gunsmith who does this kind of work. The gunsmith I use, said he doesn't do this type of work and didn't know anyone here that does.

Secondly I spoke with a fellow I know who works in gunshop in Calgary who owns a 50 AK. He was the one who mentioned the above 3 gunsmiths that do big bore lever conversions. Furthermore he didn't seem to think any smith in Canada does this type of thing.

If you know of some Canuck fellow that does this work, I'd be grateful to you if you'd spill your beans already!

BTW This gun wouldn't be for those runty moose in Waterways, it's more intended for those trophy gophers in the foothills .

Thanks,

GordM

So thats what your going to do for sure now ,50AK? I mean we gotta know before we start down another trail of help for you to change your mind.So think it over,be REAL sure,let us know for certain,and then we'll try to help.

Charger,
Why are you wrecking my thread?

And what is so confusing to you ?
Here's facts: At first I had a rifle that I never used, found the ammo to be expensive and I wasn't initially impressed with the ballistics. I made a post on the forum looking for advice, then found out the rifle was marginally valuable. A fellow made me an offer on it and selling it seemed like an ideal solution.

On that same thread people talked about 450/50 AK conversions, something that was completely new to me.
Givin some time to think about it and after a little research I decided a fast handling DGR with nearly the same ballistics as a 458 would be a sweet gun indeed. Then I told Frank I was no longer interested in selling (sorry Frank).

Does this seem that complicated Charger?

When I started this thread I was hoping some 50/450 AK owners would chime in and share thoughts and advice with me so I make a good decision when I choose to get this done. So I do not get a "hack job"

This extremely arrogant and condesending post of yours here contributes nothing to the thread.

Quote:

---

Hold on fellas.Lets take a look at these posts.We're looking for brass,we're going to reload,we might sell,no we're not,we might convert,oh thats up in the air now.Look,I can tell you from having seen much of this planet,but unfortunately having to come to rest here for the last decade or so,zigging and zagging will be and is the canadian way.I got a buck double or nothing to all takers that says after all this fishing is done,the sum total will either be a hack job,a quick sale,or most likely a big goose egg.So my well meant advise is save anymore breath,there will be a day you will need it for a real purpose.

---

In the future save your own breath and stay the fuck off my posts!

Later,

GordM

I contacted Gord about this rifle and spoke to him on the phone concerning it as a result of his initial posts. I have bought and sold guns while building my present collection since 1964 and also worked in the retail gun trade. I found Gord to be completely honest in his approach to selling and he e-mailed me pictures, which I saw a couple of days after he described the rifle to me.

The price he was asking for his rifle is fair and it is EXACTLY as he described it; I would not hesitate to deal with or buy from Gord based on the way he treated me. I would prefer that he not chop this lovely rifle, but, it's a free country (or used to be) and he can do as he sees fit.

I also found Charger's post irrelevant and offensive.

Gord, I have all of the conponents, dies, etc, that you would ever need, if you decide to keep it as it is and will make you a fair price on them. If not, call Ralf Martini in Cranbrook re: chopping it, sob, sob. This rifle will give a 250 gr. bullet 2300 fps. with RE-19, NO Moose or Grizzly will walk away from that. Buy a Guide Gun if you want a short range, lever-action DGR.

HI,

Also look at Dave Clay, he did a 50-110 on my 86,by the way the 50-110 will also shoot 50AK,.The 50-110 gets around 300 fps with same weight bullets than the 50AK, also he does a 45-110 round,Kev

CHOP! CHOP! CHOP! CHOP!

Maybe I'm just not as sentimental as I should be about those 71's. It would be alot easier to be if there was another gun that could handle the Alaskans so well. From what I understand the Marlin is to short.
Talk about a chop-job, if it were mine, I'd turn it into a 358-348 Imp!!
But, then it would just be a screw off-and-on away from returning to original spec.

Gord, Kutenay has suggested the man to take it to IF you really want to alter it. Ralf has some rifles of mine right now and I have 2 more to take him next month. But really, you should try the rifle out first and if you're still convinced it's not suitable for your purpose, then consider the alternatives. Making the 71 into a .450 or .50 will, in all probabilities lower its value and cost you dollars. I can guarantee from experience that the .348 is suitable for anything in North America, ......been there, done that! The fascination for bigger stuff is a failing of mine, but I admit it's just that. When I was a kid, a "big" .348 was a dream, and I should have stopped there! ~Arctic~

Just to expand on the post Bwana-Be made concerning options for this conversion, there are actually 2 excellent ways to do this without using an original Winchester 71.

First, the Marlin 1895 can be converted to .50 Alaskan, it is currently being done by Wild West Guns. They only convert the Marlin though, they don't work on Winchesters. Here's a link:

http://www.wildwestguns.com

The second way is to use one of the recent Browning 71 repros that came out 10-15 years ago. These are easy to find, I have four of them, they are excellent guns and by using them you would not be altering any collectable value as you would an original Win. 71.

GordM,

Don't let some of these fellows fire you up. It ain't worth it.

Congrats on keeping your Winnie. However, I wouldn't waste a fine Win. 71 on 450 or 50 AK. Keep it, it will surely bring in some bucks for you in the furure. Your pictures of your 71 say, "save me please". Do the Browning 71 conversion. They still show up at various classified sites and usually new. I personally believe the steel and workmanship make these the platform to alter.

By the way, thanks for your back and forth on the trade offers I made. Done in straight and honest manner. Just wish you hadn't decided to keep it.

Roger QSL

OK so this has been interesting. You have all hashed it out and everything is fine. As I told Gord in the post I sent him after posting here being upset is simply a fleeting breath of air for me. Can't let little things like this go on and on. We are good to go and I will also offer some information on the conversion for Gord if you will send me a PM. No need to do it here.
The 450 AK conversion is reversible if done by a competent gunsmith who has done so in the past. My friend has done several, owns one of his own so I am not destroying an old trooper and removing a collectible from the market. For me guns are fun "TOYS" and I do treat them all with the respect they are due. I shoot many different Winchesters including '86's, 94's, 73's, 92's, 65's and 71's. I shoot them with original loads and that includes black powder loads and well as smokeless. They were built to shoot. Not accumulate wealth and dust in gun safes. NOT IN MY SAFE ANYWAY. That is reserved for my Haenel, and Wesley Richards and Winchester 12, and 21 and 24. I also have a fun little 16 double built by hand in Italy that sits in the safe except on really nice days when I go for quail.
So Go on and build your 450 Gord. From your description of living in bear country it is exactly the cartridge you need and exactly why Johnson developed it.
And just to clarify. When I said I had the paperwork and MO ready I was talking about the forms needed at my end. And no I did not know it would be a 6 month wait. So no really big deal, OK. Lets get back to Gords POST.
Frank

Roger,

Interesting you and a few other fellows mentioned picking up a Browning 71. I located one here in Canada for $1000(maybe less) or $818 yankee bucks, the dealer described it as immaculate and it even comes with the factory box. Seems a little high, but maybe it's the deluxe one, I'll have a look at it in a couple weeks.

I gotta wonder though why people still seem to prefer Winchesters over the Brownings for 450 conversions. Any thoughts?

So far, of the 3 smiths I've contacted only 1 was willing to tell me exactly what he does to reinforce the magazine tube from separating due the added recoil of the 450. He simply welds a band to the barrel which is clamped to the magazine tube. I'm thinking this is probably a pretty standard procedure for doing this. This would also lead me to beleive that if I get new forend wood with the 450 barrel, the conversion should be completely reversible.
I've read on a couple sites that the feeding mechanism of the 71 requires little or no alterations at all, probably why Johnson chose the 71.

Anyways I'm going to try to contact the guy in BC (thank you Kutenay) and see what I can learn from Frank.

Thank for all the help and suggestions everyone,

GordM

Good grief. Not sure why, but I always figured making one of the big bores required chomping the forend, andmessing with the action. It's great to hear they can be put "back together."
How about a switch-barrel? Wouldn't that be the cat's meow? I can think of a few calibers I'd like to see that 348 case on. I think I'd go .308, (.348, of course), .411 and .500 cal. With all the new pistol bullets out at 300-400 grains, it's begging to be done. Maybe a 400g at 2250 fps?

Basicly, you would have a rimmed .300WSM with your .308 and with it's lower pressure loadings due to the 71's action, you would have a rimmed .30-06 and there ain't much to dislike about that! I wouldn't bother with the .411, I would just do the .500, which has and is being done. To my mind, a .450 Alaskan is a waste of time and energy, given the loads I use in my .45-70s, but a .308 and .500 would be really useful, IMHO.

The immortal Teddy once said, "speak softly and carry a big stick", well, that is sure as hell a "big stick" with a 450 gr. bonded core Kodiak!

GordM,

The price you were quoted seems fair. I bought a new one for $750.00. This was the standard model with no checkering. I've seen them listed in the Gun List for about what your paying Canadian.

As to beefing up the magazine tube, you may have to with the Winchester. The Browning I had done, did not require it. I shot many 400's at 2150 and no problems. No problem with the gun, but was rough on my fingers in the lever.

It may be just my old eyes, but the steel in the Browning just looked beefier. Probably just the new blue and dingless steel.

Anyway, good luck with your wildcat.

Roger QSL

A simple way to save your knuckles is to wrap the lever with a thin band of leather much as the Cowboy Action shooters are doing. Another is to heat the lever and reform it more wide open. This may not be suitable if you intend to return the rifle to original.
The magazine tube has not blown loose on three 450's I am aware of. I got a new forend cap because I have an octagon barrel that would have required destroying the original.
Frank

Gord what I keep hearing on these forums is the preferance for the win 1886 is that the 86 action is meant to be able to take more pressure due to vertical locking lugs as opposed to angled lugs in the 71's

Hey Roger, who did your work? Diamond Bar isn't too far from here. Was it Paul or Fred by chance?
Frank

Good luck in your new digs.
I agree "DO NOT SELL" Just buy, buy, buy!
I think MR is trying to improve their image and the work going out the door. I met a fellow who used to work there. I bought my 450 barrel there based on his recommendation and Although I did have to send that one back the second one is a real beauty.

Frank

At one of the gunsmith guild Reno shows maybe five six years ago a gent who was showing .45s and .50s told me he preferred the Browning to the Winchester. Said he, if you pump the levers with the rifles upside down the cartridges will drop out of the Winchester but not out of the Browning. I have no idea whether this is true or not but I don't know anyone who plans to stand on his head while bear hunting.

vigillinus
I cycled my 1886el (2002 Miroku built) 45/70 upside down and it worked perfectly, yes I mean with ammo in it. I'm unsure how it differs from the originals if at all other than the safety and rebounding hammer.

Gee, would this make the old lever gun CRF?
This ain't gonna make the bolt gun boys happy......

Roger QSL

So GordM,where did you end up sending that for the work???????