What is the best Elk bullet for the 45-70 in your opinion.Times and bullet choice have changed for the 45-70.There are some good ones like the Swift A-Frame-Kodiak-North Fork-Hawk-Barnes O and XFN.Which would you or do you use.

Jayco.

Paper patched pure lead flatnose of about 500 or 525 grs. Bore diameter of course. Never fails.

Brent

NOw Brent.... How did I know you were going to say that

I think the A-frame is hard to beat.#2 choice is the 350 gr.hornady rn.

How is the 400 grain Swift A-Frame loaded for the Marlin 1895 to maintain a 2.55" COAL?

Much the same way the 405 gr rem is- with total disreguard for the crimp groove. You claim to be an expert on all things .45-70, how come you don't know this?

snake river rufus,



Well, it just seems to me that there is no way to not encroach on the ogive of the 400 grain Swift A-Frame if loading it to 2.55" COAL in the 45-70. This bullet appears to be about 1.125" long with the ogive beginning about .6" from the bottom, which means a COAL of 2.63" if effectively crimped below the ogive. Most Marlin 1895 rifles will not cycle a round that long reliably. This is not a problem with the 405 grain Remington as it can be seated and crimped to 2.55" with no discrepancies.



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I have never claimed I was an expert on all matters 45-70, perhaps now we all can consider you to be?

As quoted by Rick Jaimeson in loading the .450 Marlin and the Swift A-Frame----
Most bullets designed for the .45-70 work well in the .450 Marlin with some exceptions. One exception is the position of the cannelure. Since the Marlin has a tube magazine, some provision is necessary to assure that magazine-housed bullets will not shift in the case neck under recoil. Most bullets have cannelures in the proper position for crimping so that the loaded rounds will feed in the Marlin action. I found two exceptions to this among the bullets tested. First, the Swift A-Frame has the cannelure positioned too far rearward for functioning through the Marlin action if you seat the bullet only to the cannelure. What you don't want to do is be in the field and have a round that is too long get jammed in the action. You probably won't be able to clear it in the field. However, just because a cannelure is not in the right position does not necessarily mean that the bullet cannot be loaded and used in the Marlin. By using a case full of propellant that is heavily compressed and then rolling a slight crimp over the ogive (far down, where the ogive is just slightly less than full bullet diameter), a bullet can be secured. The propellant keeps the bullet from being pushed deeper in the case, and the crimp keeps the bullet from pulling out of the case. This is not an ideal situation for a tube-fed rifle, but it is a possibility. The second bullet with a cannelure too far rearward was the 350-grain Speer. While this bullet has two cannelures, I found the forward one was just a tiny bit short of where it would work in my carbine. Again, I seated this bullet and crimped as mentioned above.

In his load he loaded 55.5 grains of H-322 for 1928 fps out of the Guide Gun and 40,900 PSI with a three shot group of 1.40 at 100 yards.It works.

Jayco.

Win 1886, Cast Performance Bullet 440 gr hardcast w/gascheck. Leave the silly little Marlin for play bullets ( ), and use a WINCHESTER 1886, o.a.l. issues are zero. Then you can shoot whatever bullet you like!

Just teasing you Marlin fans a little (sorry, ). Sure wish they would come out with another reciever for "proper" cartridges, 45-70, 45-90, 40-65 (like they used to), and save the silly little 336 reciever for the midsized stuff. Just my opinion on the matter.

Used the 440 grain on a cow elk last year, bullet smashed her shoulder and exited, she went down like the rug had been yanked out from under her feet.

I am just beginning to experiment with loads for my Browning 1886SRC, .45-70, using the Swift bullet. I called Swift on this, last year, they informed me that they will be putting a cannelure on this bullet further forward. I bought a cannelure tool from Corbin and a Lee factory crimp die and am working on a solution.

This is an expensive way to obtain what I am after, which is a serious Grizzly defense rifle for solo trips in B.C., NWT and Yukon wilderness areas. The 1886 holds seven shots and the 400 gr. A-Frame at about 1850 should stop an agressive bear within the 50 yd. danger zone. I have an 1895 Marlin, pre-safety, as well, but it is not as smooth to cycle and does not hold as many rounds, so, the Browning is being re-worked with XO sights, etc. for this purpose.

I think that the Swift will work, I hope so, considering what these bullets cost in this country.

Jayco, Jackfish, SnakeRiver...I'm ashamed of you straight case loaders. You all know the two true options- special batch of marked cases trimmed to fit the cannelure or Lee Factory Crimp Die. How could you have forgotten?

As I pointed out to you several times on Marlin Talk, you simply follow the directions on page 266 of Swift loading manual.vol 1. You might try calling them at (785)754-3959 or Fax (785)754-2359. Find out first hand and then you won't be spouting off such silliness.

I'm convinced that pretty much all of the crap Richard Lee peddles is a useless waste of money. If you buy his lousy dies, you may need to also buy a crimper of some sort- but, if you buy a set of REAL dies that includes a crimp!

jackfish-No crimp die on Ricks loads and yes it was for the .450 Marlin.

In looking at Buffalo Bores 350 grain Speer loads it appears he loads his somewhat in the same manner with no visable crimp and on the ogive and the brass has a smaller primer pocket then the standard ones.

I personally don't use the A-Frame and haven't tried it.I use the 405 grain Kodiak Bonded core from Alaska Bullet Works.The cannalure is in the right spot and it is a darn good bullet.It is even longer than the A-Frame with a heavy jacket and is touted to be one of the best jacketed 400+ grain bullets for the 45-70.Wild West Guns is also useing it in there loads for Grizz as they say.
I use the Crimp die on my 550 grain loads as I load it out of the groove for a better OAL.

Best of luck.Jayco.

"One exception is the position of the cannelure. Since the Marlin has a tube magazine, some provision is necessary to assure that magazine-housed bullets will not shift in the case neck under recoil. Most bullets have cannelures in the proper position for crimping so that the loaded rounds will feed in the Marlin action."< !--color-->

I solved this problem in a M 71 Winchester .450 Alaskan, eliminating crimping entirely, by removing the expander ball when sizing, and using a .45 ACP expander plug to bell the case mouth just enough to start the bullet on seating. Case mouth tension alone was sufficient to prevent the bullets from moving under recoil even when the 405 grain bullet was driven at 2400 FPS with a case full of IMR 4064. The powder charge keeps the bullet from receding into the case, and neck tension keeps it from coming out!

I believe the same approach could be used with the .45/70 as well in a tubular magazine, permitting you to forget about crimping altogether! Try it!!

I liked the 350 gr. Hornady better than anything else I tried in my 45-70s and also in my old 45-90...It really worked about as well as could be expected..

Jayco,
I use a Lyman mold that gives me 475gr hardcast. I have a Browning 1885 Highwall BPCR that loves it. I have gotten several 3" groups at 200yds with it. My 1886 wont shoot it at all. I have taken several TX deer and hogs with it and a cow elk at 300yds on a quartering shot. Busted her front shoulder and exited out her hip. Everything I have shot with it dropped like a rock.

The whole theory behind a 45-70 is that the weight of the bullet does the penetrating. The slow and heavy approach will require a bullet that expands accordingly, so exactly what is the point in throwing down a bunch of bucks on "premium" bullets for such a chambering??????



Do you guys insist on driving a Mercedes to your hunting grounds?? BMW perhaps?? Break out the caviar and Don Perrione (sp??) around the campfire?? Regular attendees of the Academy Awards maybe??



Sheesh!! Rediculous...

Hey Wstrnhuntr, don't get Jayco going. According to him if it isn't a Nosler Partition, Swift A-Frame, Kodiak or Barnes the elk won't die!

The 405 grain Remington JSP loaded from 1300 to 2000 fps is more than adequate for elk and only costs about 13 cents a piece.

I've often wondered how our ancestors killed anything without the benefit of these amazing "premium bullets."

My common sense tells me they are 90% hype. My 45 years of hunting experience has convinced me that things die in direct proportion to WHERE they are hit. Very seldom WHAT they are hit with. Maybe I missed something in class.

I would take a look at the 405 gr woodleigh Flat point that they make especially for the 45/70 I have shot a few of these and they are a very tough bullet but still expand.