i see some lite loads for the 45.70 using unique powder and the like. they usualy refer to a cast lead bullet.
is there a performance difference between the cast and a jacketed bullet? in terms of resistance down the bore.
can you "back off" a jacketed bullet the same as a lead one?
i dont know that i will do it much but it would be nice to give the girls or some young shooters a crack at a "big gun" without knocking them off there feet. and i dont have casting gear........... yet
thanks in advance
greg

sorry, i should have added that im shooting a marlin xlr in 45.70 24" bbl
greg

Greg
I cast and was lucky to find a 255 grain SWC bullet mold that threw a .459 bullet. Not one of Lymans's better efforts but worked like a charm for me.
I think with jacketed bullets at below recommended velocities you run the risk of leaving the jacket stuck in the bore.
Cast bullets being softer then jacketed, will work at lower pressures with no risk of becoming stuck. Qualify that with at certain point yes there's not enough oommph to get the bullet out the barrel.
Maybe you can find a cast bullet maker that can supply 300 grain or less bullets that you can use for plinking loads.
I saved my old cases that I no longer trusted with full charge loads for plinking ammo. 13 grains of Unique behind a 255 grain cast bullet was like shooting a 22 rim fire. I tamped a 1 inch by 1 inch square of tissue on top of the powder to hold it back against the primer with good results. The paper was burned up in the bore.
Jim

http://www.westernbullet.com/cbip/b457130.html

150 grain .458 bullet. Loads are listed on the site.

Other than that, you can use a 300 or 405 grain cast bullet starting at 10 grains Unique, and very carefully working down. Below 5 grains you run the risk of getting one stuck. When this happens, increase the load a bit and you are good to go. I use a cotton ball as filler over the powder. You can also use a .457 round ball with just a couple grains of Unique. Push the ball down in the case a bit, I have heard of up to 3 round balls in one case. Below 5 grains and velocities are around 600 fps or lower.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Great site for light loads. My avatar is what 10 grains of Unique and a 405 grain cast bullet does.

I shoot a 300 gr over 15 gr Unique, though I think you can back it off to 10 gr (better check first). Load is fairly light and cheap too. Wouln't hesitate to hunt with it at close ranges.

If the 300 grain is cast you can go well below 10 grains as long as you go safely. If it's jacketed lighter might get stuck.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
If the 300 grain is cast you can go well below 10 grains as long as you go safely. If it's jacketed lighter might get stuck.

Yup, 300 gr is hardcast Meister. Helluva bargain to shoot, low recoil, and safe for metallic targets. I can keep that gong singin all day with that load.

I've heard lower than 5 grains, but you have to real careful when going that low. Sounds like a CB cap plus some energy!

Greghud,

you can load a jacketed 300 gr to 1400 fps level and this is quite a mild load.

If you cant locate any cast bullets locally PM me and I'll send you some 250 SWC of the right size to try out. I use 16gr of W-231 and it is a very pleasant plinking load.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by JFE:
Greghud,

you can load a jacketed 300 gr to 1400 fps level and this is quite a mild load.

If you cant locate any cast bullets locally PM me and I'll send you some 250 SWC of the right size to try out. I use 16gr of W-231 and it is a very pleasant plinking load.

Joe

joe,
thanks for the offer. i have now receved the gun (at last) and i am working on a hunting load now, i will post a story.
i will need to see if i can find a local source for the lead bullets but i have not yet even looked.
there is a local supplier who dose the 45 cal bullets for pistol. i think they are .452? can you adapt them to the 458? for the 45/70?
greg

quote:

Originally posted by greghud:

quote:

Originally posted by JFE:
Greghud,

you can load a jacketed 300 gr to 1400 fps level and this is quite a mild load.

If you cant locate any cast bullets locally PM me and I'll send you some 250 SWC of the right size to try out. I use 16gr of W-231 and it is a very pleasant plinking load.

Joe

joe,
thanks for the offer. i have now receved the gun (at last) and i am working on a hunting load now, i will post a story.
i will need to see if i can find a local source for the lead bullets but i have not yet even looked.
there is a local supplier who dose the 45 cal bullets for pistol. i think they are .452? can you adapt them to the 458? for the 45/70?
greg

Sure you can patch them.

You could always pick up a Lee bullet mold and cast up some slugs from old wheel weights....
They were about 40 bucks last time I looked.

I use a 300grn cast bullet lubed with Alox over 10grns of Win-231. No filler reqd. but give it a good crimping.
I get just shy of 1100fps out of my 18.5" guide gun which equates to around 800ft/lbs at the muzzle.
Not bad for something that's no louder than a 22lr.

I load a 500gr with 7gr of Hodgdon Clays for velocity of 750fps. 7gr is about the minimum powder density to work without position sensitivity without a filler, wads, etc. You can use lighter bullets and of course the velocity will go up. But it should remain subsonic, therefore quiet, in all 45/70 bullet weights.

The key of course is to use small amounts of a fast pistol powder. Clays and Bullseye are interchangeable in this application.

quote:

Originally posted by dla:
I load a 500gr with 7gr of Hodgdon Clays for velocity of 750fps. 7gr is about the minimum powder density to work without position sensitivity

Very interesting post. Please tell us more about your load; bullet brand or mold mfg, barrel length, accuracy, trajectory, terminal effects if you've tried them on game, etc. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Avatar:
I use a 300grn cast bullet lubed with Alox over 10grns of Win-231. No filler reqd. but give it a good crimping. I get just shy of 1100fps out of my 18.5" guide gun

Is your Guide Gun ported or no? Thanks for the detail.

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:

quote:

Originally posted by dla:
I load a 500gr with 7gr of Hodgdon Clays for velocity of 750fps. 7gr is about the minimum powder density to work without position sensitivity

Very interesting post. Please tell us more about your load; bullet brand or mold mfg, barrel length, accuracy, trajectory, terminal effects if you've tried them on game, etc. Thanks.

Accuracy is about 2" at 50yds, and 50yds is about the limit as the bullet starts to drop pretty good.

This is from a 18.5" barrel Guide Gun. The bullet is a .459" 500gr Oregon Trail. These bullets are undersized for 1500fps applications and will leadup and keyhole after about 6 shots. But they work fine as "plinkers". Since I bought a box of them, and since they sucked for hunting loads, I thought "plinkers" was a good use. My daughter likes them.

I've never shot anything with them. I would imagine that they would actually be quite lethal on large game at close range.

By the way, the 7gr of Clays/Bullseye makes a very accurate subsonic load out of a 30-30 pushing a 165gr Plain Base Oregon Trail. Shoots like a 22lr on some serious steroids.

I figure the collar button bullet at 1000 fps should have ultra low recoil, shoot about the same trajectory as a 22, and have more energy. In fact I'll go figure the recoil now.

In a 7.5 gun (My guide gun with a scope), 7 grains Unique, 150 grain collar button bullet, 1000 fps...the recoil is a eyebrow busting....drumroll please......1.4 lbs. In a 13 lb Sharps you have .8 lbs of recoil to deal with.

If you reduce the load to 5 grains and a guesstimated 750 fps, .5 lbs of kick. See if your shoulder can handle that. If not, go easy on the 22 LR for a while, a couple of those would equal the 45-70!

First thing ya do is rush out in a buying frenzy and get a .458 Lott. Second thing ya do is shoot it once. Then you sit back and tell all your 45-70 shooting friends what a pussycat the 45-70 is!

Then ya shoot an elephant with the 45-70 and say, this is all I need.

Hi Greghud,

Try contacting Westcast Projectiles in WA 0893566960, they make a range of hard cast projectiles for the 45/70 from 300-500 gns (300gn proj at up to 2300 fps without leading). They can be driven at high velocity and in my rifles are accurate.
The next thing is buy some ADI Trail Boss powder, it's designed for cartridges like the 45/70, it's clean burning and mild recoil and has a bulk that will fill the air gap behind most projectiles when seated the correct depth. Enjoy

I use my Marlin for lever action competition and the mild loads are fun ,accurate and easy on the shoulder, Last weekend I fired 130 rounds with no discomfort, even a mates kids were happy to fire these loads.

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:

quote:

Originally posted by Avatar:
I use a 300grn cast bullet lubed with Alox over 10grns of Win-231. No filler reqd. but give it a good crimping. I get just shy of 1100fps out of my 18.5" guide gun

Is your Guide Gun ported or no? Thanks for the detail.

No ports.
It's much the same as shooting a 22lr in regard to noise, recoil and trajectory except that you're throwing way more lead.
Have shot a few bunnies with this load and it just drills them clean thru with a .458 hole.
I suspect it would work on larger game also.
Cheers