for those that have and use the savage 99 in 3030 what hand loads do you use and fps do you really achieve? I know we can us any make projectile with the rotary magazine, just wonted to know what my fellow 99 shooters use? thanks in advance. D O M I T !

I had one years ago, a takedown that had a .410 barrel and a 30-30 barrel.
As for loads, I just used max loads; no real reason to try to get more out of it, although you could load them to the gills; this action was made in 308.
Have to work up for your rifle though; you can't use someone else's loads here. I would go by primer flattening and case extraction ease.
Also, how old is your rifle? If it is pre 1920 or so, might just keep loads at the normal 40K psi level. Just thinking out loud.

That action was made in .308, not according to Savage, the early 99s were pretty soft according to them..Also no 300 Sav. should be rechambered to .308 according to Savage...

The average psi rating for the 300 Savage is around 46,000. The metallurgy for 99 Savages that were chambered for the 300 Savage was different then the later ones chambered for 308. I really don't think you are going to hurt that action any with any reasonable loads from the 30-30. I won't get into what pressures brass was made for in different calibers, but if the case fits the chamber lets say very close or "tight" it is well supported and can handle pressure very well. If I wanted to get more out of the 30-30, and I don't think it's much worth while, I would either neck size only or partial size if your action permits it. In an old Speer #9 reloading manual it has two loading sections for the 30-30. One is the normal bullets that would be associated for it for use in the lever actions like the Win 94 and the Marlin. The other they chose was a Model 788 Remington which we know to be a very strong action in comparison to the lever actions, but yet Speer chose not to elevate the loads at all and the only difference actually were the 788 loads used pointed bullet.

Good thing is that the back thrust on a 30-30 will be less than a 308; might be the same, at 50K psi, as a 300 Savage at 45. You can do the math; use the internal diameter, not the external. If it is not a real early gun.
I will say it; 30-30 brass is not made for low pressures. That idea is common for some reason, and I hear it all the time.
Speer was just limiting the 788 so dumb guys wouldn't use 55K psi loads in their 94 Win.

Every single 99 that came through my shop, over a dozen, in .308 had excess headspace—-every one. It may have been chambered in .308 but it certainly wasn’t made for .308.

Fifty years ago a gunsmith told me to steer clear of .243 and .308's in 99's for the reason John mentions. He said .300 and .250's are okay at factory pressures.

I always had heard the 99 action wasn't as tightly locked up as a bolt action and tended to stretch or better word, give a little more then a bolt gun. That coupled with maybe the metallurgy not being up to snuff. Seems most rear locking actions sort of have this problem. That is on the older rifles. Today they don't tend to use rear lockup actions as much. The 243 and 308 are very high pressure rounds too! I know Jim Carmichaels said in his book he would never chamber a military 98 Mauser action for a 243, for example, unless he had it re-heat treated. The weren't meant for that pressure and eventually set the lugs back of not re-heat treated.

I just wouldn't load the 243 or 308 to max loads in the 99, just the starting loads.

Jim C. was full of used bull hay. All 98 Mausers are not created the same.
For the record, it is mostly the pre WW1 Mausers (made by DWM and LOWE; Mauser Werke was not allowed to make rifles for anyone but Turkey due to an exclusive contract).
On the 99, no they aren't as strong as a bolt action; but for a 30-30, you can certainly increase the loads a bit. I see no one has bothered to do the math on bolt back thrust yet.

Yes the 99 is strong enough to zip up the loads for a 30-30 if one would desire and you get to use all the types of bullet noses. Savage made those 99's in 375 Winchester for a while too.

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:
Yes the 99 is strong enough to zip up the loads for a 30-30 if one would desire and you get to use all the types of bullet noses. Savage made those 99's in 375 Winchester for a while too.

You are assuming that the 30-30 Win chambered Savage M99's are made of the same materials and heat treatments as the 375 Winchester Savage M99's. Are they? Do you have factory records or metallurgical analysis of these actions to share?

I said above to limit these experiments to later 99s; I would limit them to no earlier than about 1920; I say that because the 250 Savage operates at 45K psi, has a larger case dimension, and there by greater bolt thrust than a 30-30, and was introduced in 1915. Later in 1920, the 300 came out and operates at even higher pressure.
These are the facts.
The assumption is that Savage didn't make weaker frames for their 30-30s.
Based on the above, I would be comfortable working up some slightly heavier loads. Just me; I certainly don't recommend anyone do anything but sit on your couch and watch TV. (Proven killer, but passive.)
Of course accompanied by some careful load development.

quote:

Originally posted by SlamFire:

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:
Yes the 99 is strong enough to zip up the loads for a 30-30 if one would desire and you get to use all the types of bullet noses. Savage made those 99's in 375 Winchester for a while too.

You are assuming that the 30-30 Win chambered Savage M99's are made of the same materials and heat treatments as the 375 Winchester Savage M99's. Are they? Do you have factory records or metallurgical analysis of these actions to share?

I only mentioned the 375 Winchester as Savage made one in the 99 Model and they are kind of rare. I would like to have one. I wasn't using it as an assumption to the strength of the action. Maybe we could assume that the very very early Model 94's didn't have the same metallurgy as the much later ones huh? I can assume even if the older Savages didn't have as good metallurgy that it's still plenty enough for the 30-30!

You will find your brass giving out before you do any harm to the rifle. Section a 30-30 case after it's been fireformed, quite thin. A buddy of mine used to make collars to slip over 30-30 cases down to the base, then fireform them in his .307 win. They had several grains more capacity then actual .307 brass.
I have a Sav 99 that was .303 sav, made in 1910. It's now a 25/35 imp. I get 3040 fps with 100 grn bullets in it's 26" barrel. Certainly fast enough, and, the same load works in my 336 Marlin in the same caliber with no sticky lever or problems.

I have not handloaded for the 30-30. This is my first one.

ok maby I wasn't clear. just wonted to know what others use as there go to load. not trying to hot rod anything , just interested in other bullets being used. the lever evolution shoots under 1 inch almost always but was thinking of stiffer slug for B I G hogs or bears.

The 99s in 300 Savage with ser. #s over 900,000 can be rechambered to .308, according to Savage, and those guns are strong enough for the 308, 243, 284, 7-08. 358 Win. I can tell you from owning and shooting more 99s than I can count that max is two grs. of powder under any book max load, you will get a lot of case seperations at the case head if you go beyond that short of new brass and its good for one shot, then back off two grs.d However I have found some powders such as WW-748 will take a book max load pretty easy and that's the powder I mostly use...of course WW760 will work also and I suspect 380 is suitable as it was designed for the 308 military round...NO the 99 isn't as strong as a good 98 or mod 70 Win. but its close enough for government work..The later ones don't have headspace problems, particularly the later 99EG and 1950ish F models. I own a number of them..reloaded too many time about 4 oro 5 times and you start getting head seperations, so its best to buy new brass as opposed to trimming IMO is you are at book max with your loads...

I had a Sav model 1899 in 30-30. Lovely little rifle. Loaded pointed bullets for it and it took a number of whitetails. As for loading it up warmer don't do it.My rifle would start to stick if you loaded about 2 grs above book max loads. That was the beauty of the 99's slick actions and the ability to use spitzer bullets. Take away the slick action and you have lost the best part of them. I also had a 99 in 284 Win. The action was about 1/2 sticky with factory loads. Loaded down a couple grs and it was as smooth as can be. A guy that loved Savages came along and offered me way more than I paid for those rifles so I no longer have any 99's.

Never heard it mentioned but a Savage will tell you when to back off, the lever will drop just a tad, and that's your clue, it works and trust it, you will feel it..drop you load a grain or even two...I have seen and had a number of head seperations with older brass but still had tight primers!! Same with Win. 94, and 71, not so much the 86 as it has a straight locking lug whereas the 71 has a taper at the top of the locking lugs, that said the 71 is a tad stronger than the 86, but not enough too make any difference IMO..

o well. guess nobody really reads the question any more.

Not true; but NO ONE is going to give you loads that they used in their rifles, and then if they don't work in your rifle, you will be mad. As I said, you have to work up loads with YOUR rifle and components; period. That is the way it works when you are on the edge.
I still can't believe guys ask for other people's load data. That is often asking for trouble; each rifle is different. I told you what I used; max, book, loads. I get them from Ken Waters' Pet Load book.

the 30-30 doesn't need any more or less than it is.
the bullets have been worked out, the speeds are what they are.
you might get a bit more than you do from factory loads just because they have to load for every 30-30 rifle out there.
I can imagine there are some barely hanging together rusted up hunks still floating around out there.

pick a bullet, pick a powder like 3031
put together a load somewhere around 2300 fps and go shoot stuff with it.
it's really hard to screw up the 30-30.

To me loading pointed bullets for a 30-30 is like having a pet rattlesnake. Somehow those bullets seem to find their way into a gun not intended for them. Yes, you know they are only for that gun but someone else gets hold of one. If you want .30 cal pointed get a .308.

I must have lots of venomous reptiles here because I load pointy bullets into 30-30 by the hundreds for my TC contender and Win 54. And I have a dozen 94s too; somehow I keep them out of the magazine.

His post was a referral to the 94 win., also applies to the Marlin, DONT SHOOT POINTED BULLETS IN TUBULAR MAGAZINE RIFLES, END OF STORY..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
His post was a referral to the 94 win., also applies to the Marlin, DONT SHOOT POINTED BULLETS IN TUBULAR MAGAZINE RIFLES, END OF STORY..

Unless you are using the leverevolution gummy tips that are pointed and designed for a lever action with a tube magazine.

Yes but Im not quite ready to trust a rubber point pushing on a primer, seems to be working, but I can't see any reason for spritzer bullet in a 150 to 200 yard gun..today I like the Rem. 150 gr.flast nose barnes X factory load. and it works on deer and elk up to 200 yards Im told by a guide friend I know who uses that combo exclusively, so I bought 5 boxes at Sptsmans Whse on sale and about as cheap as loading it..

All my handloads are equel loaded to factory ballistics, they have the bullet construction matched to the factory velocity, and they took a hundred years more or less to get it right..As a matter of fact why reload a 30-30..

As to the older 99s in 30/30 I would cut book loads two grs. and try them, then I bet you can work up to book max in those guns..The reloading companies know that and make allowences for that according to caliber as do the reloading manuals, but still cut two to start with an work up...two grs. cut in the 30-30 isn't going to bounce off a deer...The 30-30 is more than capable of killing the largest of deer or elk up to 200 yards..

My Savage mod. 99s in 308, 284, 243, all worked with two grs. short of book max, and didn't lose but 35 to 40 FPS, brass lasted 6 to 8 reloads, then anneal and start over..

My 250-3000 worked at book max and got me 5 reloads on average with proper trimming..then the head separation started, so I use max with new brass and the fired cases go into a different coffee can for a 2 gr. cut in powder..

I recently have been cutting back on the number of guns I have and my 99s are down to a .308 for a saddle gun for elk, and my 250-3000 for deer when horseback. For whatever reason the 250-3000 handles high pressures better than the 308 and other calibers??? I like my 348 for saddle use as well as my 30-30s and 25-35 Win. but my 348 is for a special place I hunt No. of Ketchum Id. where shots are 25 yards going South, and the 250 gr. Kodiak will be my next choice since Barnes dropped the Hollow point monolithic much to my total disgust..

As I said, I am smart enough to keep the pointed bullets out of the magazines and single load them.
It's fairly easy to tell them apart. One has a pointy end, the other doesn't.
For the magazine and single shots, I use them. If I want to use the 94 magazines, I usually use factory ammo.
For those who can't manage that, then, don't load pointed bullets if you own tube magazine rifles.

Savage 99 in .303 Savage asking price ~230$.


https://staffansvapen.se/vapen...beg-savage-mod-1899/

I have an 1899 C Grade in 30-30.
I reload for it. Use standard 150 & 170 FN jacketed bullets. 3031 powder. The loads are right out of the books. I never exceed mid level powder grn weights.
Plenty of power. Fun to shoot and the rifle won't take any pounding from trying to make it something it ain't.
Those square back bolt 1899's should be loaded a bit lighter than the later rounded engagement bolts IMO.

I try and treat any 100 y/o firearm with a bit of respect. I never was much of a magnamizer anyway.

Pretty much the same load (and bullet(s) in the 30 Remington and with equal results. Functions the Model 8 Remington w/o fail.

NOrdic,
Id jump on that in the USA, but I fear import fees would eat that good deal up, nice older rifle, very clean..buy it...

Absolutly nothing gained by using warm loads in these old guns, a 170 gr. bullet at 2100 is just as effective on game as the same at 2300..and this goes for all those old Win. and Savage rifles, in fact even todays hotrods gain little on the killing end, only a small amount in trajectory, but to listen to some of the crap I read that's not so, maybe these birds down have a chronograph, or have ever shot a deer for that matter...An example of such is the difference in trajectory of a 30-06 and 300 Win mag is less than 3 or 4 inches with most loads and pumped to beyond max for both may give the 300 6 inches,maybe...I have a range that I can shoot form 25 yards to 600 yards or more if I use my target stand..drop figures are closer than most claim, I give the 300 a 50 to 75 yard advantage, and at that range if you take into consideration wind, range, a pumping heart and a nervous system, then anything can happen!! Its the reason that a 3" high at 100 yards works for me, although many still use 2"s and others dead on at 100..