Probably been discussed here before, and I couldn't find the thread. Anyway, I am going bowhunting for black bear and want to bring along my Winchester 94 in 45 Colt as insurance. Wondering if anyone has inquired of Winchester (which I will do) or has experience in how this rifle handles these higher pressure loads.

Best I can tell, the +P seems to be using pressures around 30,000 PSI. I think that's about the pressure of the 30-30 and perhaps what this rifle's action was designed to take.

Would appreciate any comments or feedback..... except the proverbial "take a bigger/different gun".

thanks!

Leave the gun at home and take a Bowie for backup....just think of the adventure ...and stories you can fabricate

HT, if you don't reload look into Buffalo Bore 45 loads and read up on them. I reload for my .44 Mag Tapper w/ heavy 300grn loads. Don't take my word for it but I beleive the Winch. Trapper in 45 LC can handle heavy loads. a Heavy 45 LC will stop a black bear. Besides that Trapper should 9-10 rounds in the mag.

HT,

Go ahead and bring your gun, it will not blow up if you use +P loads.

Now, it may "loosen up" a bit (or not) but the gun will not catastrophically fail on you, and since you are wanting this only for a back-up which is basically an emergency type thing a gun that may rattle a little more after using it if you really need it is a small price to pay.

you are gonna carry a bow in one hand and a rifle in the other?
most places won't let you carry a rifle while bow huntng.
a revolver is much more handy to carry while bow hunting [just saying]
the 94 is built to handle the 30-30 round go on up to the 30k i do it in the 92's.
a 255 rnfp/horn xtp pushed along with 19 grs of 2400 will suffice.

Talked to Winchester today. Short answer: NO!

The model 94 lever action is good for SAAMI standard pressure for that cartridge. Which, for the 45 Colt, is somewhere around 15,000 PSI.

Sounds overly cautious, perhaps, but the Winchester tech person explained that there is a great degree of variability on what constitutes a +P load, depending on the manufacturer. And that may mean anywhere from a 50 FPS increase over standard, to a load that doubles the pressure. One of those is no problem, while shooting the other might be a tragic bit of optimism. There's no need to risk damaging either the rifle or the shooter, so I'll stick to standard pressure loads from the reloading manuals.

If I could just take my Ruger Blackhawk, I'd have no hesitation in using the +Ps. But being that this will be in Canada, I'll have to leave the revolver behind.

Going to and from the bait and tree stand, I'll have my '94 in my hands and my bow in a sling. And I'll be using 225 grain Barnes bullets - just in case!

After 9 trips to Africa and a moose hunt in grizzly country, I am comfortable in the bush, and ever more so when properly armed !

I think the guy from Winchester was just covering his butt, i have a 94AE in 44mag and thats a good amount higher pressure than a 45, i think the +P would put you right at 44mag pressure levels....

This question made me think so i had to check. The following was copied from the Buffalo Bore Website. Besure to read the Last line!

"Heavy .45 Colt +P - 325 gr. L.B.T.-L.F.N.(1,325fps/M.E.1,267 ft.lbs.) - 20 Round Box

These Heavy .45 Colt +P loads are safe in all LARGE FRAME Ruger revolvers.
(includes Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, all pre-2005 Vaquero, Bisley, Redhawk)

These Heavy .45 Colt +P loads are NOT intended for the New Model Vaquero (small frame).

These loads are also safe in all modern Model 1892 leverguns
as well as all Winchester & Marlin 1894's
"

Good information - thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by fgulla:
I think the guy from Winchester was just covering his butt, i have a 94AE in 44mag and thats a good amount higher pressure than a 45, i think the +P would put you right at 44mag pressure levels....

Agreed. Anything that can handle a .44 mag can handle a .45 Colt loaded to similar pressures.

I disagree. To make a 45 of a 44 you must remove some metal.

I don't think the difference is big enough to be significant in this case. Especially since the case head of the .45 is actually a little smaller, which mean that it would generate slightly less thrust on the bolt face when loaded to the same pressure.

Guys I have been watching this thread for a bit, I did a lot of work with a Winchester M94 in 45 Colt back in 2005 as a short handy carry rifle for me in South Africa, since no handguns were allowed for practical purposes from 2005 to now. Next best thing, A 16 inch M94 in 45 Colt.

I have run some really hot stuff through my gun, and it still works like a champ. Some examples;

250 gr Hornady from 1450 to 1670 fps

250 Gold Dot I settled at 1440 fps because of terminal performance was superb with that bullet

265 Swift A at 1658 fps

300 Hornady XTP from 1450 to 1629 fps

335 Cast Performance from 1435 fps to 1585 fps

360 Cast Performance to 1370 fps

I even tried some 395 Cast Performance to 1250, but they would not stabilize.

I have shot a lot of this sort of loads through my 94 and no issues! For terminals I found the 300 Hornady excellent, and the 250 Gold Dot Excellent, everything else ok, but not great.

Michael

The 45 Colt brass will handle the pressure if it is well supported. I took have a 45 Winchester Model 94 and it's a great rifle in all respects except one. Winchester has a god awful fat chamber in them and shooting high pressure loads really bulges the brass ahead of the solid web area. I've never had any let go, but I didn't like that. You can trim down 454 Casul brass for tougher cases.

OK, have field tested a load that I think will work well. I happen to like Barnes X-bullets for expansion, weight retention and resulting penetration. So I determined to try the XPB. Spoke to the Barnes tech and he gave me some loads (unpublished) they had done that week in a standard 45 colt pisol. Seems HS-6 and Accurate #5 gave virtually identical results, with velocity between 950 and 1,000 fps in the 200 grain bullet. That seems anemic to me, but the all copper Barnes bullet can be a little pressure sensitive. Anyway, I started with his load and kept going up to a load I found in the Accurate powder book for the model 94AE using #5 powder. Difference was the Accurate book showed Sierra bullets, and like I said, the Barnes X can be a little finicky on pressure. So when I got to their minimum load, and 1500 fps, I stopped with a smile on my face. That should work, and is generating over twice the energy of the loan the Barnes tech started me with.

For what it's worth, the Barnes tech gave a max of 10.3 grains of HS-6 and I ended up with 13.1 grains. No signs of pressure that I could tell, though SmokinJ is exactly right about the bulge in front of the solid web area.

The loads I found on the internet for the 94 trapper had max velocities of 1400 - 1650 fps, so being close to the middle, with a bullet of my choosing is a comfortable place to stop.
Anyway, I'm good to go with this combination and wanted to share what I found out.

I think you are all set. I think the 45 colt is fine with ruger loads. However, I do not have a winchester version. Mine are marlin 1894's in pistol calibers.