I am interested in some good loads for a Winchester Model 94 in 38-55.

This is a fairly new rifle and am looking for something either jacketed or cast bullet that would work for deer/black bear out to 100 yards.

If I was going to use factory ammo I would get some Buffalo Bore.

For reloads I would use the Hornady 220FP.

In researching 38-55 data I have here it looks like RL7 and IMR 3031 are good powders.

Some of this is older data and there have been some new powders introduced.

I would much prefer a jacketed expanding bullet, over a cast bullet for the bear hunt you are doing.

I would not hesitate to use a 38-55 for that hunt.

I've been shootin a Marlin Cowboy for a few years. It really likes a 250gr RNFP cast bullet over 21.5gr of XMP5744. Groups are 1.5" @ 1600fps. I just picked a box of 220gr Hornady's. I'm going to try IMR3031 with them. Good luck with yer Winchester

Unless it has changed, the only jacketed bullets available are from Barnes, which is what Buffalo Bore uses as far as I can tell. It is the "original" and weighs 255 grains, comes in two diameters. They perform very well on deer and hogs.

quote:

Originally posted by Ol Bull:
I've been shootin a Marlin Cowboy for a few years. It really likes a 250gr RNFP cast bullet over 21.5gr of XMP5744. Groups are 1.5" @ 1600fps. I just picked a box of 220gr Hornady's. I'm going to try IMR3031 with them. Good luck with yer Winchester

Oldbull & Crazy
You might want to check your land and groove diameters before you invest in jacketed bullets.
My 38-55 which has a Marlin made barrel has a .375 land diameter which means I can push a .375 diameter though the barrel. My groove diameter is .380.

.38-55s are not .375s

SR4759, you are right. I don't know what i was thinkin. Oh well, guess i have a box of .375 220gr Hornady FP's for sale

Many Thanks for all the replies Gentlemen.

To give a few more of the parameters, the gun I will be using is a Model 94 Chief Crazy Horse Commemerative.

The idea of a cast bullet was just something I threw out for ideas.

I will have to look thru my stock of bullets, but I believe I have a few boxes of Barnes Originals in both 375 diameter and 377 diameter, can't remember the grain weights off hand, but those are the bullets I will be working with.

I will use whichever grain weight and bullet diameter the rifle likes best.

I have shot a couple of javelina with this rifle using some 255 grain cast bullets, and like the performance, but a black beart has better muscling and heavier bone structure, and when I shoot one or two, I want to hit them with something that will do a decent job of making them lay down right there and hurt and not try to get up and wander off.

Crazyhorse, i have the same rifle and the groove measures .380". the Barnes bullets were too small for my rifle in either size obviously. i did try the .377" size once as someone gave me a box and they sprayed everywhere. i shoot cast bullets anyway so i shoot .381" 250gr. GC LBT LFN's with either RL-7 or H4198 @ 1800 fps with great results.

Thank You and Welcome to the AR Forums.

That sounds like they type load I was interested in, especially if I can get that type/weight bullet to group @ 100 yards and if I can get it in a hard cast bullet.

I think I have some .380 diameter cast bullets that I picked up off eBay a couple of years back, but I think they are fairly soft.

However, a .375/.380 diameter lead bullet, soft or hard coming in contact with a critter at 50 yards or less running between 1750 and 1800 feet per second should leave a mark.

The Buffalo Bore .38-55s are quite accurate in my Marlin. Considering their costs, I haven't shot real groups with them, once I got it sighted in, I called it quits, but they are certainly shooting in the 1 1/2 inch range at 100 yards or a bit better. My personal opinion is that if I was hunting bears I'd prefer a bit more "uumph" than the .38-55. I killed 8 of 9 dead wild hogs (all of which were full grown except for one shoat, probably 80 to 250 pounders, mostly being toward the middle of that range) in about 10 seconds with the above .38-55 and the BB rounds so it will certainly get the job done. Don't get me wrong, I have NO doubt that it will kill and has killed many a black bear, but personally I'd just want a bit more power if I was going to hunt one. Specifically I'd rather use a Marlin .45-70. However, I'll be the first to admit that I haven't shot one, and don't plan on shooting one so this is just an opinion. As in all hunting, shot placement is a helluva lot more important than a few extra foot pounds.

One of the things I am looking at, is that even for rifle hunters, bear hunting over a bait is a 50 yard or less, maybe ony 30 yards or so project.

A 250 to 300 grain weight range bullet clipping along at 1700 to 1800 FPS. with proper shot placement, should be more than adequate I would think.

I am at the point where I have a little over a year to get this put together, and if I can get the 38-55 to shooting the weight bullet I want and getting 2inch groups out of it at 100 yards, I believe I will be more than able to place the shot where I want it at 50 or less.

If I was very concerned about having enough power, or get concerned about having enough power, then I will fall back on my usual 2 choices of hunting rifle, my 375 H&H or my 35 Whelen.

I know those will do the job.

Thanks For The Comments, I Can Always Use Extra Food For Thought On This Until Time To Pull The Trigger On The Bear.

i don't think you could get a 300gr. bullet at anywhere near 1700-1800 fps in a lever gun. first there is not enough case capacity for the powder and second a 300gr. bullet would have to be seated pretty deep to feed, intruding on case capacity even further. a nice thing about the crazyhorse rifle is it is factory drilled and tapped for a Williams receiver sight which i find helps tremendously with accuracy. i checked my load book and 30.0gr of RL-7 with the 250gr. cast bullet chrony's at 1875 fps from my rifle.

Crazyhorse, my favorite load for the 38-55 is a 260gn cast performance hard cast flat point w/ gas check sized to .380 32gns of rl-7 will safely get you 1870 fps w/ a wlrp primer and a good roll crimp out of a 24 inch barrel, my rifle is a win legendary frontiersman. I use a lyman peep sight and that thing goes thru deer & pigs at any conceivable angle with lots of blood loss and they dont go far. Good luck. Jerry

Many, Many THANKS.

That is the type info I was looking for.

I am looking at a situation where I am going to be shooting at a 150 to 250 pound or so black bear at a range of less that 50 yards.

While I apreciate every one's response on the issue, I am not worried about power/bullet performance.

As I stated earlier, if that was my concern, I would be using my 375 H&H or my 35 Whelen, no power/performance issues there.

But, at the ranges I will be shooting, a .375-.380 - 250 grain or larger slug, cast/jacketed, whatever, at 1750 to 1850 fps, is going to do plenty of damage.

I am probably, given the opportunity, going to take only a shoulder shot and try to get the critter off its feet, I ain't worried about pretty or one shot wonder, I am concerned about having a dead bear on the ground, even if I have to ventilate it a couple of times.
JMO.

Thanks Again For The Load Data.

I still think I would prefer a good Soft, driven as fast as possible, ie safe pressures, [not using a hot load by any means] to a cast bullet for the hunt you are doing.

I am gonna play around with the various loads and bullet styles and go with whatever the rifle likes best.

I mean think of how many bears were killed with patched soft lead round balls out of a flint lock.

There are some folks around that are casting bullets that plenty hard when compared to pure lead, or even some brands of jacketed bullets.

At the ranges I will be shooting, with some of my other choices, my 375 H&H or the 35 Whelen, and my normal loads of 225 or 250 grain Barnes "X" bullets, I would be more concerned of pass thrus that did not expand properly at the range.

It may work out that with the rifle I will be using will like both a cast bullet loading and, one with one of the various Barnes Originals that I have a selection of in both grain weights and diameters.

I may end up with the first round in the barrel will be a cast bullet, with the first round out of the magazine being a Barnes Original.

Whatever I end up using will be something that the rifle shoots well and i will have worked with enough to be able to put whatever slug I will be using, just exactly where I want it to go.

I do appreciate all the advice everyone is giving.

I have killed a whitetail and a moose with a Winchester Alberta Diamond Jubilee Commemorative. My load of choice was a 245 grain hard cast bullet with a BHN of 25. Powder was XMR 2015 to the tune of 26 grains and a Winchester Large Rifle primer and Winchester brass. This load chronied out of the 20" barrel at an average speed of 1658fps. The whitetail was at 75 yards and she was facing me. I hit her in the white patch below her neck and she folded. No bullet recovery. The moose was 110 yards away and i hit him in the spine and there was an exit wound on the other side. Again no bullet recovery.
If there ever was a rifle i miss the most, it would be that .38-55. Layne Simpson has written an excellent article on shooting Canadian black bears in BC with the .38-55 as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I am gonna play around with the various loads and bullet styles and go with whatever the rifle likes best.

Dang good idea! Try the soft lead as well as the hard.

Only caveat I have is pick either lead or jacketed. Clean the bore well of any residue from the other so you're shooting through a clean barrel, especially if you're swapping back and forth between the two looking for the right load.

I have one of the Chief Crazy Horse 94s as well and enjoy the heck out of shooting it! It will handle any Black bear that comes along!

Leverboy and C1PNR Many Thanks for the additional info.

I really do apprecite all the answers and advice that has been presented by everyone.

I know everyone has their preference as to bullet type when it comes to hunting anything, I just feel that the 38-55, with a cast or jacketed bullet, loaded properly and the shot/shot's placed properly should be more than a match for a black bear at less than 50 yards.

Once again, Thanks For The Information.

quote:

In researching 38-55 data I have here it looks like RL7 and IMR 3031 are good powders

The 38/55 uses the same type of powders as the 45/70. Just less of it to get similar velocities. If loading hot, I would use 375 WIN. brass.

I shoot a Crazy Horse. Slugged at .378, so I shoot Beartooth 250 or 255 grainers at .379 diameter. I fooled around with a couple of different powders. The best by far for me has been AA2495. I shoot WW brass and primers. I can't remember the charge off hand, think it is around 36 grains, but work up a load, don't use my estimate. Good for nailing clay pigeons at 100 yards.

I've got a couple .38-55's chambered in 1893 Marlin's and a Savage 1899B. My favorite powders are RL-7 and AA2495. Both give nice velocity at reduced pressures. I shoot strictly cast bullets in mine and if you need to fill a larger groove diameter then look for the old Lyman Ideal 375296 (FNGC) or 375248 (FNPB) moulds. My copies throw bullets at .382" and .381" respectively. My 1895 Marlin in .45-70 loves H-322, but I don't remember trying that in my .38-55's... have to go dig out my records now!
Best to you,
Jeff P

I have a Sav. 99 in 38-55 and it is a wonderful rifle and cartridge.

Hey, this is an interesting thread!
I was going to rebore an old MkI Lee Enfield to 375 creating an almost identical cartridge to the 38-55, specifically for dense bush use and with cast bullets. My job has now evapourated so that won't happen for a while but still, it is interesting to hear about that cartridges performance. Pretty much what I had figured when choosing the 303-375 - which was before I new of the 38-55.
The only thing is, I would prefer a lever gun in that chambering!