I feel the groups are pretty incredible without taking full advantage of the tuner.
Butch

Saeed

Many thanks for your efforts with this .22lr ammo project. It is much appreciated by those of us who do a lot of shooting in this caliber.

From the picture of the shooting set up it doesn't appear that a chronograph was used in this testing. Is that correct?

It would be great as you continue to perform these .22lr ammo testing in other hunting rifles to include the velocities if possible.

Thanks again for your efforts.

Hi Saeed,
As a side point have you tried shooting a rimfire at your range with one of the fan off and did if affect your point of impact or group size.
I shoot at a small 22lr range in the burbs of sydney and the police who issue the licences for ranges made us install ground baffles to delflect some of the noise and this has afected our point of impact and group sizes.

Fantastic Report Saeed...

that rifle must be an awesome rifle.... if nothing else, based on some of the groups you got out of the CCI , Federal, Winchester and Remington Ammo..

not very accurate stuff in my experience...

Velocities of the different ammo has been added on the 50 yards test.
I will update both the 75 and 100 yards test as time permits.

Interesting comments on BR.Com.
http://benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69018
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Interesting comments on BR.Com.
http://benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69018
Butch

Thanks for the link Butch.
Very interesting, and very true statements from everyone.

We are trying to see how the different ammo we have will shoot in different rifles that we have, nothing more.

It is far from being a bench rest test of either rifles or ammo.

My friend Dwight Scott, who is a champion bench rest shooter, and a master gunsmith - you will see his name as the gunsmith who builds bench rifles for a lot of the top shooters in the US.

He was visiting us here a couple of years ago, and we thought of asking him of shooting some of our 22 rim fire rifles and see if he can arrive at any conclusion which technique might be helpful in illiminating all the variables that we don't seem to be able to.

He spends 2 days in our tunnel, and each time he came up with "I think I found someing that might be helpful". A little while later he was trying something else.

When I asked him what is going on, his answer was "this 22 rim fire can drive you crazy"

Which about sums up what we have been experiencing all along.

We have experienced different sounds from each round we have fired from some 5 shot strings.

In a 5, 5-shot group shots, we might hear what we might consider a normal report as each shot is fired. Then one would make a very loud CRAAACK. Then another one might sound much lower, BLIP. Needless to say, it is very unusual for these to land in the same group.

I think it is much easier to get a center fire rifle to shoot consistently accurate groups than getting 22 rim fire to do the same.

Regardless of the rifle used.

We have a Hall actioned rifle Dwight built for me. It has several barrels.

I have shot some groups with the 6PPC here in our tunnel that went as low as 0.02".

Back to this exercise.

We have the following rifles which we are considering running the same test through.

Walther KK200
Anschutz Match 5418 MS-R
Anschutz BR-50
Anschutz 1808 MS
Anschutz 1451
Kimber 22
Kimber 82
CZ452 HB
CZ452 sporter
Ruger 10/22.

Going from one extreme to another.

We are taking a little break of a few days to test our new bullets 1000, 1250 and 1500 grain bullets in a 700 NE bolt action rifle we have built on a single shot 50 bolt action.



A 300 grain 375 caliber on the left for comparison.

I am hoping to get back to 22 rim fire shooting after 2 weeks.

I'll be visiting with Dwight at the Super Shoot in about 4 weeks. He just finished doing his custom firing spring assembly redo on my Bat DS rifle. I really think he is on to something.
Butch

saeed - question - i'm curious, by the time you're done with the test -about how many rounds of 22 ammo are you going to shoot up??

Very nice test!

However, I think velocity SD and ES numbers would be invaluable information in the 100 yard test. You are getting our far enough with the little .22, that vertical spread is becoming a factor. It is starting to show up on some of those targets. I suspect that many of the loads that shot well at 50 yards, but really opened up at 100, have higher SDs than the the ones that didn't. You are past the limit of only looking at it as an issue of "what the rifle likes".

As our test is mainly for hunters, I have two friends who are visiting us from Zimbabwe and the US.

I have asked them to shoot a selection of the ammo I have shot in the Bleiker rifle at 100 yards, and I will post the results.

Here are the results of some of the best ammo that we have tested at 100 yards, fired with the same rifle, the Bleiker, by 3 different hunters.

Again, the following is the average of 5, 5-shot groups.

Eley Match 0.455 0.511 0.603
Lapua Midas M 0.549 0.573 0.538
Lapua Midas Plus 0.510 0.380 0.527
Lapua Polar Biothlon 0.611 0.420 0.557
Eley Ultimate EPS 0.611 0.747 0.517
Lapua Center X 0.630 0.564 0.485
Eley Match EPS 0.619 0.578 0.706
RWS R50 0.631 0.618 0.793

Hi

Nice ammo test! As nearly all the best 22 lr ammo are included, I think you should shoot Lapua x-act also. It is the most expensive ammo in the market so it would be interesting to see how it would do in same conditions than others.

We are in the UAE, and we are testing every single ammo we could get hold of.

The above samples shot by two additional shooters were picked from the top of the list of the previously tested ammo - the ones that gave best results.

We are going to do the same with some of the ammo that gave us not as good results.

We have also started shooting all the ammo we have in a Walther KK 200 match rifle.

All the above results will be posted as soon as we are done.

Great test, THANKS!!

Outstanding work, Saeed. Thank you very much for sharing your results with us.

We have been working at the opposite end of the scale as far as ammo testing is concerned.

Above you see some of our 700 NE rounds with our own 1000 grain Walterhog bullets.

I am hoping to get back to 22 testing in a few days time.

Saeed;

Please test some the the "lesser" ammo at 100yds/m.

Lots of ammo looks great at 50yds but just fall apart at 100m. We shoot smallbore Silhouette, 40m, 60m, 77m & 100m (rams where the boys are shooting here). We try all of our ammo at 100m for 'litmus' test. We can't afford Lapua.

Mostly we used Fed 711B & 714. With our Coopers & Kimber we get 0.87-1.25" w/711B & 1.25"-1.75" w/714. reason for these is almost same POI at all ranges. The boys don't have to change base sight settings from practice ammo to match ammo.

Thanks for your efforts & forums.

Pete A.

I have started shooting the Walther KK 200 with the same ammo, and will post the results as I complete them.

I was talking to my friend Todd Kindler of the Woodchcuck Den earlier, and he suggested that I try a lube that he sells.

It is called SPL, and is supposed to work with both center fire and rim fire ammo as a bullet lubricant.

My intention is to try it with some of the ammo that has what looks like terrible lube. Mainly some of the Eley ammo. The lube on these bullets is far too much, and becomes crusty and falls off as the ammo is pulled from the box.

I will clean the barrel, then shoot a whole box, making 10, 5-shot groups with it as it comes from the factory.

I will then take another box, clean off the factory lube, and lube the bullets with SPL, clean the barrel and shoot 10, 5-shot groups.

First example of this is going to be the Eley High Velocity - the one with the rabbit on the box, as it is one of the worst ones I have seen.

If I see any descernable improvement, I willtry the lube with some of the better shooting ammo from both Lapua and Eley.

I will let you know the results I get.

Saeed Sir, I am speechless when confronted with the scope of this test. I've done a lot of "group" shooting with an Anschutz Model 54 Sporter which was significantly "tuned" by Frankonia Jagd -- for hunting not bench. To me one of the valuable features here is the very INSIGNIFICANT differences between different ammo brands costing many times more and/or less than each other. I think mixing benchrest and 22 RF in the same sentence is somewhat oxymoronic. Be that as it may, my friend if you're ever in my neck of the woods you're welcome to share coffee at my table anytime.

Don Boyd
Win Model 70 and Mossberg Mod 142-A Forever

Hey all,

For whatever its worth & I don't know if it's been mentioned here before ?

" RIFLEMAN'S GUIDE to RIMFIRE AMMUNITION; Steven Boelter ".

http://zediker.com/books/books.html

Lots of Rimfire & Tech info .

PAPI

Amazing work. Saeed, thanks for sharing it!

First off I would like to say thank you for your efforts. I appreciate the amount of work you put into this, and the detail with which you reported your findings.

I did have one comment.

There is one ammo that at least a few folks use here in matches in the North West. The ammo in question is Wolf match extra. The 22LR wolf ammo is not the junk made in Russia. It is made in Germany. I myself did a much less extensive test with 7 different types of match grade 22LR ammo. I have had VERY good luck with it under much less controlled circumstances. I shoot consistently shoot .875"-.650" groups at 100 yards at an outdoor range in a wide array of wind conditions. In the best of conditions, my best group (5shots) was .136". My point being, I think the ammo deserves a fair shake. I have compared it to Federal gold match and Eley match (couldn't get tenext) and found it VERY competitive for 25% of the price.

If you are willing I would really like to see how Wolf match extra compares to the other upper end ammo. I don't have access to the same rifle or uber controlled environment which you preformed the testing.


Thanks again for all the hard work.

I am new to your forum and new to rimfire shooting. I read the ammo test above an found it very interesting.
I would like to try the WESTERN VALUE PACK ammo, would it be possible for the spec/ type/number of the ammo
tested?
Thanks much

Steve D

I would like any info for the western value pack ammo you used in your test.
Steve

Saeed,

Thanks for your impressive work. Could you please let me know some dimensions of your Blieker rifle barrel from that test? I'm interested in the number of grooves, the twist the barrel length and diameter.

Thanks in advance!

Dmitri

I would have like to have seen the Wolf match extra tested along with the others. I've had good luck with it.

Is there a new thread, or an update to this project that I have missed somewhere?

quote:

Originally posted by Yuk:
Is there a new thread, or an update to this project that I have missed somewhere?

We do have an update, as well as other rifle results.

But, I have no idea when I will be able to post it.

The tests are mostly done.

Now I have to measure, label and scan the targets.

Then I have to process them - make the scans smaller, rename the files and then put everything in an HTML format.

Each target has to be done individually, so it is very time consuming.

I sometimes get friend's kids to help with the sizing and renaming, but apparently they are busy with school right now.

We have shot about 70 different types of ammo, at 50, 75 and 100 yards.

In teh following rifles

ANSCHUTZ 5418 MS R
KIMBER PRO VARMINT
BRNO CZ 455 XI SUPERMATCH


Other rifles lined up are

WALTHER KK200
SAKO P04R - THIS ONE WILL BE TESTED WITH A SILENCER AS WELL AS WITHOUT
RUGER 10/22 WITH A VOLQUARSON MATCH BARREL.

I will see if I can do at least one soon, and post the results.

I appreciate your interest.

But, as I mentioned, it is a very time consuming exercise, and I only do it when time permits.

Spectacular!!! Thank you for your time and dedication.