I stand ready to be called a turd, but I have shot 3 Win-9422s that were POSs. We are talking 1970 era rifles with current ammo. Owned a H&K M270 that was very accurate but I refuse to use a rifle that has fixed sights and a scope mount and rings that cost over $350. That being said I would now buy a H&K or a OLD model Bruno in a heartbeat.

I have shot a couple of Winchester 22 Mag levers and they shot pretty good.

Also I have shot a H&K 300 in 22 Mag and it was a tackdriver. [The H&K 270 is a 22 LR and it has the grooves on top of the reciever for 22 type tip off mounts, it too was very accurate].

I wionder how good the semiauto CZ shoots?

quote:

Originally posted by JIm Yackley:
I stand ready to be called a turd, but I have shot 3 Win-9422s that were POSs. We are talking 1970 era rifles with current ammo. Owned a H&K M270 that was very accurate but I refuse to use a rifle that has fixed sights and a scope mount and rings that cost over $350. That being said I would now buy a H&K or a OLD model Bruno in a heartbeat.

+1 On the Brno (model.2)

I have a Colt single action revolver with the two interchangeable cylinders (22LR and 22 WMR) and it shoots both pretty poorly. I would also be interested in knowing if someone has found a 22 WMR rifle which is accurate, whatever the ammo.

Guys you need to look at the SAAMI drawings for this cartridge and chamber combination.

In my estimation the chamber is way too large in diameter for the cartridge. (Large meaning at worst case maximum diameter the chamber is too large. It is possible for a manufacturer to make the smallest chamber allowed by SAAMI an the problem is not so great) At one time this cartridge was used by pistol silhouette shooters. To improve its performance in Contender single shots the bullets were pulled and replaced with Sierra Hornet bullets.
I have tried this myself and it works. I think the .22 WMR starts off with less than the best bullets in some loads (the cheap loads). On top of this the bullets may be damaged by crimping. Then they are fired in over size chambers through bores with 16" twist rifling and we expect them to group well at 100 yards.

I have shot a lot of decent groups at 50 and 75 yards but at 100 meters the groups are often terrible.

I think the only real cure for this is to use a custom reamer with a good quality barrel. You will still have to find ammunition that works well.

I have a Kimber (of Oregon) Model 82 in .22 WMR which is a ringer, especially with (scarce and expensive) RWS ammunition. However, it shoots quite acceptably with WW 40 grain HP. I also have a Sako Model P-72 in WMR which shoots about as well as the Kimber. Recently came by a Marlin Model 57M, and although I haven't tested it thoroughly, it groups not as tightly as either of the other two, but shoots as well as any common .22LR. Of course, all of these rifles are long since discontinued, so your challenge may be finding something in current production.

Years ago I had a WW M94/22M. It shot "okay", but nothing like the Kimber I replaced it with. Besides, it was stocked wrong for a scope; if you're not using a scope a M94/22M is about as accurate as you can see, anyway.

I haven't found any .22 WMR ammunition which shoots as well as the orginal 40 grain JHP. Both the hyper velocity 30 grain ammunition and the heavy-weight 50 grainers shoot poorly in all of my guns.

I have an old, first or second year of production Mossberg Chuckster. It's not an engineering or manufacturing marvel, and certainly has not been treated like a collector. It sat in the milkhouse for a few years after we figured out that the old Western Arms fine twist single shot shotgun had belled at the muzzle. This old Mossberg is not pretty, but it shoots. I've killed a lot of groundhogs with it out to 150 yards. When I was a steadier shot and had good eyes, I used to shoot 5/8"goups at fifty yards with an old Weaver J2.5 from a sitting positon. We didn't shoot off a rest back then. Now I can hardly see through that old scope. A new scope helps, but the gun shakes a lot more now. It must be the rotten wooden stock. It does not shoot the newer high velocity stuff or the heavy Federal ammo very well. It shoots Winchester 40 grain solid and HP both better than any other brand. I still use it for groundhogs and squirrels.
Bfly

Has anyone tried CZ's 22 Mag semi-auto? I hear they shoot pretty good.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Guys you need to look at the SAAMI drawings for this cartridge and chamber combination.

In my estimation the chamber is way too large in diameter for the cartridge. (Large meaning at worst case maximum diameter the chamber is too large. It is possible for a manufacturer to make the smallest chamber allowed by SAAMI an the problem is not so great) At one time this cartridge was used by pistol silhouette shooters. To improve its performance in Contender single shots the bullets were pulled and replaced with Sierra Hornet bullets.
I have tried this myself and it works. I think the .22 WMR starts off with less than the best bullets in some loads (the cheap loads). On top of this the bullets may be damaged by crimping. Then they are fired in over size chambers through bores with 16" twist rifling and we expect them to group well at 100 yards.

I have shot a lot of decent groups at 50 and 75 yards but at 100 meters the groups are often terrible.

I think the only real cure for this is to use a custom reamer with a good quality barrel. You will still have to find ammunition that works well.

The average case swell in my Krico is .004" after firing.
( varies from brand to brand ... nearer .005 on some brands a/c smaller starting diameter).
My chamber is pretty well on spec at .243"
- the problem is that the 3 brands of ammo I have are all under the saami spec of .242 and are nearer .238"
The other thing with the chamber is that it has a long freebore for the projectiles its loaded for by the OEMs .
my chamber is within spec to the lands ( of 1.1006 +0.15"( to the boltface)......and is inside the max by about .050"

An OEM 30gn Vmax is .140" off the lands and thats a lot when it only has a .210" bearing surface length ( and not all that is inside the case)............the base of the projectile is barely inside the case when the projectile engages the lands as its fired.

I can seat a 60gn spitzer to the same case depth as a 30gn Vmax and only just touch the lands in the Krico............thats a lot of freebore & makes the weatherby freebores look very modest compared to the projectile length.

nothing in the chamber dimensions is conducive to great accuracy with OEM 22WMR cartridges.
A max length chamber would have a 30gn Vmax outside the case in freespace before it engaged the lands............its no wonder some 22WMRs are absolute dogs.

Its almost like a rabbit was given the job of designing the 22WMR specs & gave itself the best chance of being missed.

Black fly I have the Mossberg 640K as well. The problem with that gun is the difficulty of mounting a scope due to the weird bolt action. What do you use?
peter

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
Has anyone tried CZ's 22 Mag semi-auto? I hear they shoot pretty good.

Yes, I had a friend take one on our last prairie dog hunt. It acquitted itself well with Fiochi ammunition, taking dogs out to around 100 yards or so. I haven't seen what it will do on paper, but its field performance was pretty good. Fortunately for him, he has somewhat less invested in it than the High Altitude prices I've seen asked on them recently.

That stupid bolt is a pain. For a long time, it had that old Weaver J2.5. A long eye relief 3/4" tube. But I've used a set of Tasco rimfire rings and either an old Simmons 22 Magnum scope which is a poor substitute for a rifle scope, or a 4X Leupold. I have it set a bit forward and high. I have to lean into it and cock my head up. I've often thought about getting one of those Burris scopes that had about six inches of eye relief and mounting it a bit to the front. For a while it had an old 3/4 inch 22 scope with the rings set on the front half of the scope. It looked funny, but worked. I need all the light I can get now, so now use the 1" tubes. I'd love to have a really good solution for this rifle.
Bfly

quote:

nothing in the chamber dimensions is conducive to great accuracy with OEM 22WMR cartridges.
A max length chamber would have a 30gn Vmax outside the case in freespace before it engaged the lands............its no wonder some 22WMRs are absolute dogs.

Wow that is well put but true.
I was sick and too lazy when I posted the first time. The use of the Sierra bullets in my Mossberg permitted me to seat them out until the nearly touch the lands. I had to stop short of the lands to keep a half diamter of the bullet in the case. I don't remember but I think they were still .040 short.
All that said if you want an accurate 22WMR, design a benchgrade chamber reamer not to SAAMI but to fit the ammo you will use. Then use a good quality barrel. A 14 inch twist might be a good idea too.

quote:

Originally posted by Black Fly:
That stupid bolt is a pain. For a long time, it had that old Weaver J2.5. A long eye relief 3/4" tube. But I've used a set of Tasco rimfire rings and either an old Simmons 22 Magnum scope which is a poor substitute for a rifle scope, or a 4X Leupold. I have it set a bit forward and high. I have to lean into it and cock my head up. I've often thought about getting one of those Burris scopes that had about six inches of eye relief and mounting it a bit to the front. For a while it had an old 3/4 inch 22 scope with the rings set on the front half of the scope. It looked funny, but worked. I need all the light I can get now, so now use the 1" tubes. I'd love to have a really good solution for this rifle.
Bfly

Blackfly,
I had a 620 in high school and know what you mean about the scope. I now have a 640. I have a Weaver 12X on it from what I call the boat anchor era of Weaver scopes. This is the early to mid 1970s model just before the Micro-Tracs were marketed. It has a very long tube behind the turret and long eye relief. The 6X back then was not quite so long but it was long and had a lot of eye relief too. Today's scope makers seem to have forgotten that the stubby little scopes are sometimes not so hot.

This is a set of rings by BKL.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

nothing in the chamber dimensions is conducive to great accuracy with OEM 22WMR cartridges.
A max length chamber would have a 30gn Vmax outside the case in freespace before it engaged the lands............its no wonder some 22WMRs are absolute dogs.

Wow that is well put but true.
I was sick and too lazy when I posted the first time. The use of the Sierra bullets in my Mossberg permitted me to seat them out until the nearly touch the lands. I had to stop short of the lands to keep a half diamter of the bullet in the case. I don't remember but I think they were still .040 short.
All that said if you want an accurate 22WMR, design a benchgrade chamber reamer not to SAAMI but to fit the ammo you will use. Then use a good quality barrel. A 14 inch twist might be a good idea too.

what gets me is why the OEM cases are undersize to a spec chamber by so much and why the chamber is so long relative to the COL of the cartridge spec.

I mean...........why would you do that as a manufacturer that designed the cartridge ......whats the logic in it.

SR4759,
What are those rings? They may be a solution to a long stretched neck.
Bfly

Shot a winchester pump 22mag that was lights out.

quote:

Originally posted by Black Fly:
SR4759,
What are those rings? They may be a solution to a long stretched neck.
Bfly

Black Fly,

I found that photo in the Mossberg section of RimfireCentral. They are made by an outfit called BKL.

BKL is here

quote:

what gets me is why the OEM cases are undersize to a spec chamber by so much and why the chamber is so long relative to the COL of the cartridge spec.

I mean...........why would you do that as a manufacturer that designed the cartridge ......whats the logic in it.

Denis,
I have spent a career in engineering so I can hear what you are saying.
On the other hand here is best way I can explain it and it applies well to most things.

When projects are managed there are 3 main criteria that need to be met.
They are cost, quality and time.
Anyone can tell what day it is and determine if a project is on time.
Anyone can tell if the budget is being met.
Quality is the hardest thing to measure and the first place managers will compromise their integrity because it is the last thing that will burn them.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

what gets me is why the OEM cases are undersize to a spec chamber by so much and why the chamber is so long relative to the COL of the cartridge spec.

I mean...........why would you do that as a manufacturer that designed the cartridge ......whats the logic in it.

Denis,
I have spent a career in engineering so I can hear what you are saying.
On the other hand here is best way I can explain it and it applies well to most things.

When projects are managed there are 3 main criteria that need to be met.
They are cost, quality and time.
Anyone can tell what day it is and determine if a project is on time.
Anyone can tell if the budget is being met.
Quality is the hardest thing to measure and the first place managers will compromise their integrity because it is the last thing that will burn them.

I hear you .

I'm rebarreling a #4 R/block to WMR as an exercise..........hence my 'at hand" data status on WMR chambers....and frustration .....He He.

quote:

I'm rebarreling a #4 R/block to WMR as an exercise..........hence my 'at hand" data status on WMR chambers....and frustration .....He He.

Denis,
That is a project I have been wanting to do also. I have not been able to find a suitable action for it. When I find one I will have a reamer made to my specifications and run it in shallow and test.

Not that many R/blocks in Oz.
I stumbled into that one for AU$100 with a broken mainspring & a worn barrel , but otherwise an action in good condition.
you can see rifling in the barrel but you can't get anything to grip it & rotate........He He.

8" groups at 50 yds..........rebarrel is justified.

Try Magnum Research semi autos. I have a .22 WMR and .22LR both tack drivers without open sights. They have machined integral bases. You don't have to do anything to them