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Assuming you are trying to find what improves the accuracy of 22 rim fire ammo.

In the process of trials, how much improvements would you consider as warranting to follow?

10%?
20%?

Your thoughts please.

I am trying something - I am only part way in it - and was wondering how to post my results.


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Posts: 69721 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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I should think 10% would be remarkable from the better 22RF ammo. If you were to achieve 20% that would be a super bonus.
All said I think you will end up back with the quality of the primer mix/rim filling, just as you have done in the past.
Always enjoy your tests and their results.
 
Posts: 1078 | Location: Mentone, Alabama | Registered: 16 May 2005Reply With Quote
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In the context of ARA Benchrest, 10% is worth something.


TomP

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Posts: 14824 | Location: Moreno Valley CA USA | Registered: 20 November 2000Reply With Quote
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I would think the rifle would be a major factor.

The more accurate rifle, less improvement might be noted.

The opposite would be true on a less accurate rifle.

What one is trying to prove or gain also would determine. How much improvement is important.
 
Posts: 19844 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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I support OMG's thinking, there is not a lot you can improve for accuracy of good 22RF ammunition. Quality control of bullets, crimping and powder charge seem to have been well sorted and nothing to be done outside of the factory. Ditto with priming EXCEPT it is possible to improve this area with the design of the rifle.

When we compare rimfire priming with centrefire, the rimfire is pretty primitive. Centrefire primers have a centralised anvil and receive a solid blow from the firing pin igniting the priming mixture in the centre with the mixture being consumed evenly from centre to outside circumference of primer cup and the brisance of the burn directed to the powder charge though the central flash hole.

The rimfire on the other hand receives a firing pin blow of various weights and profiles to only one small part of the rim. There is no flash hole separating the powder from the priming mix therefore as the priming mix ignites at that one point the powder is also ignited at the same point.

The distribution of the priming mix around the rim of rimfire cases is often not very even, better for specific target ammo through better quality control of the process.

Any improvements to the firing pin blow should result in better primer ignition and better accuracy.

The Gevarm 22RF semiauto that fires from an open breach, I think proves this. There is no firing pin, just a raised ridge across the breach block which gives a heavy blow diagonally across the head of the the rimfire case creating detonation at two points on the rim. Despite the heavy breach block slamming forward, driving a cartridge from the magazine into battery in the chamber and detonating the primer, all on the release of the trigger, these rifles are very accurate with good ammo.

Would be interesting if rimfire priming was ignited by a blow to the rim of the case around it's entire circumference?

Priming ignition from a Gevarm rifle
 
Posts: 3944 | Location: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: 03 August 2009Reply With Quote
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I have no idea how many 22 rim fire I have shot, probably more than most people do.

These include every single type I could get.

From the extremely expensive target types, to very cheap ones from China.

The rifle I am using for this test from Bleiker.

Bleiker

It is without question the most accurate 22 I have shot.

I am getting very small groups.

The rifle has a tight chamber.

Some ammo is very hard to chamber.

I am using the same lot of ammo for my test.

As from previous experience, 22 rim fire ammo is most definitely NOT 100% consistent.

I have a 25x scope on it.

One group would hard to measure, and next is no where near as good.

I am about half way through.

Telling a friend about some of the results, and finds them very strange.


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Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69721 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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A secure rifle rest may also contribute to documenting accuracy. It will take away the inherent inacuacy nature of the human in the loop. Keep in mind that even with a 25X scope, your heartbeat can affect the aim (That is why olympic shooters are taught to time their shot with the quiescent time of a heartbeat).


Bob Nisbet
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Posts: 830 | Location: Texas and Alabama | Registered: 07 January 2009Reply With Quote
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I can't believe after reading this post one of these (Marlin 50) came in for repair. Unfortunately no parts for it. I'd never seen one in over 40 years.

quote:
Originally posted by eagle27:
I support OMG's thinking, there is not a lot you can improve for accuracy of good 22RF ammunition. Quality control of bullets, crimping and powder charge seem to have been well sorted and nothing to be done outside of the factory. Ditto with priming EXCEPT it is possible to improve this area with the design of the rifle.

When we compare rimfire priming with centrefire, the rimfire is pretty primitive. Centrefire primers have a centralised anvil and receive a solid blow from the firing pin igniting the priming mixture in the centre with the mixture being consumed evenly from centre to outside circumference of primer cup and the brisance of the burn directed to the powder charge though the central flash hole.

The rimfire on the other hand receives a firing pin blow of various weights and profiles to only one small part of the rim. There is no flash hole separating the powder from the priming mix therefore as the priming mix ignites at that one point the powder is also ignited at the same point.

The distribution of the priming mix around the rim of rimfire cases is often not very even, better for specific target ammo through better quality control of the process.

Any improvements to the firing pin blow should result in better primer ignition and better accuracy.

The Gevarm 22RF semiauto that fires from an open breach, I think proves this. There is no firing pin, just a raised ridge across the breach block which gives a heavy blow diagonally across the head of the the rimfire case creating detonation at two points on the rim. Despite the heavy breach block slamming forward, driving a cartridge from the magazine into battery in the chamber and detonating the primer, all on the release of the trigger, these rifles are very accurate with good ammo.

Would be interesting if rimfire priming was ignited by a blow to the rim of the case around it's entire circumference?

Priming ignition from a Gevarm rifle
 
Posts: 3874 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Our test is of 4 parts.

Two parts are finished, and I am about half way through the third.

Each part requires the shooting of over 1,500 rounds.

Getting some interesting results. Not just in accuracy, but in how inconsistent some ammo is.

The rifle is has a match chamber, and ammo from Eley, Lapua, RWS have no difficulty in chambering.

Others, like CCI standard and Fiocchi are very difficult to chamber.


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Posts: 69721 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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I'd choose top quality reliable ammo 1st. I am also kinda warming up to the dual FP concept that Eagle27 brought up. When we shoot cheap ammo at the shop we often get FTF's. Good FP indent no bang. We will rotate the round 180 degrees and it will often go bang. If it doesn't we start rotating it until we go 360 degrees. After that it must mean there is no priming compound in it. the old Swiss Vetterli used a fork shaped FP tip that impacted two spots 180 degrees from each other. Might be a good idea for .22's.
 
Posts: 3874 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
I have no idea how many 22 rim fire I have shot, probably more than most people do.

These include every single type I could get.

From the extremely expensive target types, to very cheap ones from China.

The rifle I am using for this test from Bleiker.

Bleiker

It is without question the most accurate 22 I have shot.

I am getting very small groups.

The rifle has a tight chamber.

Some ammo is very hard to chamber.

I am using the same lot of ammo for my test.

As from previous experience, 22 rim fire ammo is most definitely NOT 100% consistent.

I have a 25x scope on it.

One group would hard to measure, and next is no where near as good.

I am about half way through.

Telling a friend about some of the results, and finds them very strange.


Of all that I have shot, the Bleiker is tops. I'm doing an inexpensive club shooter now.The WVU shooting coach had a Walther KK300 barreled action at a very very good price. I'm building a BR stock for it now. I do have a lot of accuracy ammo, but most of it is 25-30 years old. It is fun though.
 
Posts: 8964 | Location: Poetry, Texas | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With Quote
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I am two thirds through.

I collected a large number of different ammo.

Shot them in 5, 5-shot groups.

First lot were as they were from the factory.

Then the same lots of ammo were cleaned of all lube, and I sprayed them with Tungsten.

Shot all those in the same manner as mentioned above.

Then I sprayed Tungsten on the same lot on top of the factory lube.

I have only shot a few groups of these.

I will try finishing them as soon as I get a chance.

Too busy building rifles of crazy cartridges.

Like the 7.62 x 39 Russian, 30-223 Remington, Ackley version of others.


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Posts: 69721 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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[QUOTE]I have no idea how many 22 rim fire I have shot, probably more than most people do.

These include every single type I could get.

From the extremely expensive target types, to very cheap ones from China.

The rifle I am using for this test from Bleiker.-


Was that a typo? Is it a Blaser?
 
Posts: 3811 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by carpetman1:
[QUOTE]I have no idea how many 22 rim fire I have shot, probably more than most people do.

These include every single type I could get.

From the extremely expensive target types, to very cheap ones from China.

The rifle I am using for this test from Bleiker.-


Was that a typo? Is it a Blaser?


Bleiker is made in Switzerland, and have a very good reputation for accuracy.

Blasers are made in by some deranged nuts in Germany, and are very well know to blow themselves up. clap


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Posts: 69721 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Saeed, I was just pulling your chain.
 
Posts: 3811 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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And I never like to miss an opportunity to put the Blaser in the spotlight! clap


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Posts: 69721 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
And I never like to miss an opportunity to put the Blaser in the spotlight!



I had that impression thus my comment.
 
Posts: 3811 | Location: san angelo tx | Registered: 18 November 2009Reply With Quote
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Will somebody PLEASE tell me what is wrong with Blaser. No humor, facts please.


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Posts: 1141 | Location: Brownstown, Michigan | Registered: 19 April 2015Reply With Quote
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Do a Google search on Blaser blow ups.

The most unsafe piece of junk ever invented! clap

A German gunsmith told me personally he knows of 18 blow ups in Germany.


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Posts: 69721 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Thank you Saeed.


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Posts: 1141 | Location: Brownstown, Michigan | Registered: 19 April 2015Reply With Quote
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I had a Blaser blow up once .....


It blew up my checkbook when I bought it .. :-)


DRSS Chapuis 9.3 x 74 R
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Posts: 1312 | Location: Catskill Mountains N.Y. | Registered: 13 September 2011Reply With Quote
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