Since Hanned Line stopped making their Small Game Bullet tool (and everything else apparantly) I'm wondering if anyone else is selling anything like it? Does anyone know if Beljan Mfg is still make their version of the SGB tool? I know Paco Kelly makes a die that does something similar but I'm not too keen on whacking rimfires with a punch and a hammer.

What are you talking about?

I think it changes the bullet shape for better terminal ballistics on game.

quote:

Originally posted by Ole Miss Guy:
What are you talking about?

Here's some links with a picture of the Hanned Line SGB tool or its results...
http://users.htcomp.net/tbelding/browning/buckmark.html
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/index.cfm?magid=33 http://users.adelphia.net/~parslowb/images/SGBandDynapoint.jpg

The scary Paco Kelly version is here:
http://www.gunblast.com/Paco.htm

I have done thousands of 22 Long Rifle cartridges with Paco Kelly's tool(s). They work well for inexpensive ammunition to make groups more accurate as well as to give terminal performance increases through bullet re-shaping. If the instructions are followed. . .they are completely safe and effective. I've purchased both the older designs and also own the newest tools - all great!

Good shooting to you!

Sunset

quote:

Originally posted by Sunset:
I have done thousands of 22 Long Rifle cartridges with Paco Kelly's tool(s).

If the instructions are followed. . .they are completely safe and effective.

Any chance you could share the secret of whacking a rimfire cartridge with a punch and a hammer without risking ignition? Thanks.

nordrseta,

Here's the deep, dark secret for Paco Kelly's rimfire tool:

Read, understand and follow the very simple instructions that come with Paco Kelly's units. They are well-written and can easily be safely used by anyone who is even remotely clinging to the fringe of normalcy. If you do not count yourself within that group, you may want to move on - there would be nothing beneficial for you to see here.

All the best,

Sunset

quote:

Originally posted by Sunset:
Here's the deep, dark secret for Paco Kelly's rimfire tool:

Read, understand and follow the very simple instructions that come with Paco Kelly's units.

Thanks Sunny, that clears up everything.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunset:
I have done thousands of 22 Long Rifle cartridges with Paco Kelly's tool(s). They work well for inexpensive ammunition to make groups more accurate as well as to give terminal performance increases through bullet re-shaping. If the instructions are followed. . .they are completely safe and effective. I've purchased both the older designs and also own the newest tools - all great!

Good shooting to you!

Sunset

I haven't done thousands...yet, but your statement is entirely accurate.

I use an arbor press with the Paco tool.

Although the hammer technique works quite well, I like the serenity of a smooth arbor stroke.

I also use washers on the nose-forming punch rod to assure exactly the same results for each round. This makes for maximum consistency relative to the bullets' shape.

I've found increased accuracy and much better bullet effect on small game after the Paco treatment. It can turn an accurate solid nose rounded bullet into an accurate bluntnose hollowpoint that acts like its a magnum in its effects on fox squirrels while still yielding the quite report of a subsonic bullet.

I shot about a dozen species of Paco'd ammo today. They were the most acurate of the 30+ flavors I have tested in my Cz 452, and 77-22. Some ammo showed a little betterment in accuracy, but not enough consistently to consider Pacoing ammo on a regular basis.

From RFC:
I went to the range today, and shot my Paco'd ammo.

Resized .223, Accur'zr punch ONLY, both solid and HP ammo. Just flattened the nose, kept the nose radius as close to stock as I could, for feeding reliability.

CZ 452 RUGER 77-22. 25 yds.
Results: Original group first, Paco group following.

CCI CB Long
77-22- 2 1/8" 4 into 5/8", the 5th flier, opened group to 1 1/4" Maybe my fault.
CZ SCATTER 1 5/8"

CCI Short Hp
77-22 5/8" 1"
CZ 7/8" 11/16"

CCI Short
77-22 3/4" 1 5/16"
CZ 7/8" 1 3/16"

Note: The 77-22 fed shorts perfectly from my Volquartsen-modified clip. CZ magazines will not feed shorts. At All! Did the tests single shot.

50 yds.

CCI Blazer
77-22 15/16" 3/4"
CZ 5/8" 5/8"

Velocitor
77-22 1 1/4" 1 1/4"
CZ 1 1/16" 1 1/4"

Remington Subsonic
77-22 3/4" 1 1/4"
CZ 1/2" 1 3/8"

CCI Subsonic
77-22 1" 15/16"
CZ 5/8" 5/8"

CCI MiniMag Solid
77-22 11/16" 15/16"
CZ 3/4" 5/8"

CCI SGB
77-22 1 3/8" 1"
CZ 5/8" 1"

CCI Std. Vel
77-22 3/4" 1 1/8"
CZ 15/16" 1/2"

Federal American Eagle HP
77-22 1 3/8" 1 1/8"
CZ 5/8" ~1/2" (only had 4 rounds left)

Sooooo....fellow .22 nuts, that's it.
Interesting, and fun, also informative for me.!

Apologies: this will be hard to read, because the computer will not leave the spacing I set up!



Measuring groups: I use an engineering hole template, the smallest diameter that will contain an entire group. Not absolutely gnat's nut precision, but sufficient to my needs.

My conclusions: No way to evaluate possible increased effectiveness of ammo from nose shape, but accuracy wise, IMO, not enough difference to make Paco'ing a future exercise, at least not at my house.

Maybe this has answered some of your questions. It has mine.

But how does this re-shapeing help group size someone please explane I'm all ears.

The Paco die does two things: it uniforms the diameter of the bullet, usually making it fatter than the factory bullet in the process; and it reforms the nose to make it more effective as a small-game killer. This is most useful to me when using accurate subsonic plain-nose cartridges for hunting.

To demonstrate the change in the size of the bullet, I recently measured the diameter of some untreated and treated CCI subsonic rounds. Untreated, they measured .2235 inch (which may have been influenced by wax on the bullet). The same rounds that I ran through the Paco die, using the larger sizing option, measured .2250 (which, again, could have been affected by wax on the externally lubed .22 rimfires).

Often, but not always, the fatter bullet will yield some accuracy gains by fitting more closely the chamber and barrel of the gun. Always, the blunt, hollowpointed bullets I produce make better game killers in the field.

My Paco die also offers a smaller diameter resizing option, but I like the larger one for my single-shot match barrel and some bolt-actions that will accept the larger bullet. Often, semiautmatics won't reliably feed rounds fattened (and consequently shortened) this much, so a smaller-diameter die option should be chosen. Some experimentation is in order to see what works best with any given firearm.

Neil Waltz also. No hammers, just a loading press. More expensive, but more precise.

Does anyone have any experience with how well Paco-treated ammo feeds in a clip-fed semi-auto? Specifically, a Remmington 597 (dual-stack magazine).

Davis