Is there much advantage to going to an all stainless rifle over a chrome-moly one with Gun-kote, Teflon, etc. for purposes of "weather-proofing"?

To the extent that the bore is an issue, would a chrome moly action (like a CZ 550) with a stainless barrel be fine if the whole thing gets gunkote, teflon, etc.?

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, as I have never been to Alaska and have no idea if the weather's effects on rifles is more myth or reality. I ask because I am debating between ordering a stainless barreled action from MRC or re-barreling a CZ 550 magnum that I just bought (using a stainless barrel) and putting gunkote on the CZ. Either option would be going in a synethic stock.

No such thing as a stupid question.

I've had 2 stainless guns in my life. 1 was a kimber that rusted up pretty bad up here. the other is brand new and hasnt seen the field yet.

Besides those 2 I've had my guns blued, parkerized and spray painted.

Go for whatever finish you want but you still have to take care of it. some more than others. I hear teflon works pretty good up here.

I know its not any help but its my 2 cents.

If you hunt anywhere near saltwater your stainless will rust / pitt also!
I have used Gun-Kote on 3 mausers. The tefflon molly matte black has held up great even in a salt spray enviroment. I just oil swab the bore & bolt when I return to the boat My wood & blue rifles get a healthy coat of Johnsons Paste Wax!!

I would not consider stainless maintenance free around salt water.

A plated coating such as NP or Industrial TDC would probably be the most durable at a reasonable cost when compaired to an applied/spray-on coating. Robar NP3(NP w/ Teflon) and Armaloy TDC(micro-nodular) comes to mind.

As far as the bore is concerned, the military uses TDC(thin dense chrome). Might not be the best idea on a varmint rig but may be ideal on a working gun exposed to saltwater.

quote:

Originally posted by tsturm:
If you hunt anywhere near saltwater your stainless will rust / pitt also!

on my first trip to kodiak, as i waded ashore from the plane, the guys who were there 4 days before came up tome. the first thing they said was not how was the flight or nice to meet you, instead it was do you have any gun oil?

all 4 guys had blue guns with wood stocks. i never saw such rust and deep piting in my life. the salt air and spray will ruin your guns in no time. stainless steel will rust and pit in a maritime environment, it just takes longer than chrome moly steel.

a good product to check out is a synthetic spray called rusty duck.

the way to go is 416 s.s. with teflon over it. go for at least a 300 salt spray hour rating. it is still a good idea to wipe it with oil. this set up is very durable in a boating ops situation. a waterproof soft gun case is a good idea when traveling by boat each day.

a 1/2 oz. bottle of oil on the mtn. is worth more than 1 gallon of oil at home on the bench. even with the coating, pay attention to bearing surfaces like the trigger, a magnet for rust and will mess up your trigger pull.

why do you think frying pans are coated with teflon...

I have hunted the Louisiana salt marsh for 30 years. We have a lot of problems with rust also. We paddel the marsh in pirouge's with saltwater driping of the paddles and the bottom of the pirouge gets a inch or two of saltwater in the bottom. Some times you can watch the rust forming as you sit in the duck blind. The best solution for a blue gun that I have found, is Shooters Choice Rust preventitive. If you follow the directins which involve degreasing your fire arm and applying several coats, and then wipe it down every day after the hunt with the S.C. rust preventitive you will have verey few problems with rust.

I've never owned a SS shotgun or had one coated, never needed to.

Dr B

myoderru03

There is no myth about Alaska being tough on guns. I learned the hard way when my brand new Sauer 90 375 H&H bacame a mess and shifted POI 12' on a 5 day rainy caribou hunt.

In the 20 odd years I lived in Alaska I tried most of the weather proofing suggestion you have been given. What I found to be the most bullet proof was the SS and teflon as Cold Zero suggested with a premium synthetic stock.

My suggestion is leave the nice wood and blued finish for the desert or most of Africa. When you come to Alaska bring a tool that you can walk on, lean on and not be concerned where you lay it down.

Mark

Teflon...can't beat it!!

Moly or teflon or ceramic coatings all will give you nice protection.
I haev had a couple of my SS guns rust and mildly pit here. I have never had one of my coated guns rust

I hunted AK last September for the second time. This time I took my CZ 416 Rigby with a blue barrel. If you spend a little time each evening wiping your gun down you will be fine. I like SS becasue I am somewhat lazy in that regard and can do less with out adverse results. All guns used in Ak will require some amount of TLC when exposed to the elements.

Here is a great idea I picked up on while there last September. I now use this idea all the time. Take a piece of electrical tape and cover the end of the barrel. It will keep the rain, dirt, etc. out and will not have an affect on the bullet.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Mr. Young,

I live in Anchorage, and would like to have a SS rifle teflon coated. Do you know of anyone here in AK who does a great job?

If not where down south?

Thanks

ceg1963

I had incredibly bad luck with Alaska gunsmiths. That does not mean there isn't someone there that can do a great job. I will tell you that Brownn Precision does a great job and their turn around is reasonalbe.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
ceg1963

I had incredibly bad luck with Alaska gunsmiths. That does not mean there isn't someone there that can do a great job. I will tell you that Brownn Precision does a great job and their turn around is reasonalbe.

Mark

+1 on that.

options for teflon.

brown precision does good work.

iron brigade armory (500 hr. salt spray rating on their man of war finish)

robar (service can be slow)


yes, s.s. guns can rust, it just takes a little longer than chrome moly.

Myoderru03
Take the time to look at www.robarguns.com
AK

Thanks all.

v/r

Thanks to all for your replies. They have all proven very informative.

I talked to Robar today, and they told me that the NP3 goes on all internal parts of the rifle (i.e. the parts within the bolt), while the Roguard goes on the rest of the rifle. Is NP3 the only product that actually get inside the bolt to protect the firing pin, springs, etc.?

cold zero,
How slow of a turnaround time would it take to go with Robar? Would it be more than a month or so?

yes, i would expect more than 30 days for robar.

i have guns that have been done by both robar and i.b.a.

have you called i.b.a.? ask for norm jr.

roguard goes on the outside, on the majority of the weapon, the moving parts and buttons get np3. this is a proprietary formula for them. you will have less of a need for oil for the weapon for function and for rust prevention after the coating is installed.

i.b.a. "man o war" finish can be done in camo or diff' solid colors. would rec' this opp' to get your gun camoed, or o.d. or brown, no black. i.b.a. prop' coating i feel is thicker and designed for combat and likely is more durable than roguard. i once spent a night in a river with the man o war finish submerged a good part of the night and i have 0 rust on the gun. the action will work smoother when the coating is applied. take this opportunity to have the gun accurized, trigger job, titanium dev con bedded or any other work you may need done.

Roguard finishes seem to be the cream of the crop lately.
I have personally never seen any weapons coated with it except for photos. Some of the photos showed pistols coated with it 5-7 years ago and they are carried in a holster daily and show no signs of wear. I have never met a person who has a gun coated with it who disliked it. According to the literature on there web site is offers more protection than stainless steel. I was convinced enough that I am having my new custom 375 finished with it.

This is what I am putting on my rifle.

An independent testing committee quit the salt test spray after 7464 hours because there was no sign at all of corrosion and they felt they were wasting their time and wouldn't see any for a long time.

Look here:
Birdsong

And here:
Birdsong, Sniper Central

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Roguard finishes seem to be the cream of the crop lately.
I have personally never seen any weapons coated with it except for photos. Some of the photos showed pistols coated with it 5-7 years ago and they are carried in a holster daily and show no signs of wear. I have never met a person who has a gun coated with it who disliked it. According to the literature on there web site is offers more protection than stainless steel.

parkerizing or a phosphating both offer more protection than s.s. the roguard looked great when i first got it. now after some hard use, there is several places where the coating has worn off. i had it done about 2.5 years ago and i do not carry it every day. unless my job was substandard, i find it hard to beleive that someome could carry that for 6 years and have no signs of wear. i do not dislike the coating. just saying expect wear.

i have hard used the gun with the man o war finish on it and after 3 years no visible signs of wear, yet.

that being said. the black t is another quality finsih that is available. if it really could be had for $50/$100 respectively. then that would be the way to go. that is cheap, i like co. that don't need to advertise.

Walter Birdsong's Black-T and Green-T costs $50 for a handgun and $100 for a long gun.
Mr. Birdsong has been applying it for 25 years and has NEVER warranteed the finish on a gun.

It it the best finish you can put on a weapon, period. Check out the links above.

Read. Learn.

Flippy, I am always in the market to refinish older guns.
Do you have any experience with Birdsongs finishes? They seem to be recommended but also seem to be just another form of spray and bake.

Cold Zero
As you know Robar/Roguard/NP3 finish has a lifetime warranty..
Send it back..
Robbie asked me to remind you of this..
AK

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Flippy, I am always in the market to refinish older guns.
Do you have any experience with Birdsongs finishes? They seem to be recommended but also seem to be just another form of spray and bake.

I do not personally (yet!), but I have seen one. B-E-A-U-TIFUL!!

This is not sprayed on. The finish actually becomes "part" of the metal. Think of it as polymer bluing.

quote:

Unlike the DuPont products, it is not merely sprayed on, but actually penetrates the metal. It is therefore slightly more durable than a good bluing job, and much more durable than any of the spray-on bake-on finishes. Once applied, it needs nothing – no lubrication, and no special care. As the metal is completely bonded, it simply cannot rust.

If you take the time to go to the links, you will have your questions answered better than I can.
If that still isn't enough, call Mr. Birdsong. He will be more than glad to explain his process.

---Mike

quote:

Originally posted by akrange:
Cold Zero
As you know Robar/Roguard/NP3 finish has a lifetime warranty..
Send it back..
Robbie asked me to remind you of this..
AK

akrange and others;

i consider the wear spots on my gun to be as a result of normal wear and tear. nothing stays like it was when it first came in the big brown truck, if you use it like it was meant to be used.

that being said, robar's treatment is quality and that is why i recomended it above. robbie stands behind his work and he is a reputable businessman. after the treatment is applied, the need for lube is greatly reduced as a result of the teflon in the treatment.

thanks for your input and the offer...

My Sako AV is coated with Robar NP-3. After two AK hunts, it looks like the day I got it
But they were inland hunts, plenty of rain--no salt spray.

Phil

To repeat a previous comment of mine from an old thread -Stainless Steel should always be "passivated" otherwise it may corrode ! Apparently most gun makers don't do this !

I have a number of Teflon coated stainless rifles. Most have a NP3 or E- Nickel bolts and trigger assembly. I also have some Chrome moly guns done the same way. The Teflon will wear off in the "wear areas" over time.
The last "all weather" rifle I had made I had a Titanium aluminum nitride finish applied. I think I paid about $800.00 to have it applied. It is what Weatherby had applied to the "outfitter" series rifles year ago. It is extremely hard and durable. It will not wear off and has shown extreme tolerance to to weather. Titanium Nitride is what you se applied to " gold appearing" finish on drill buts. The Titanium "Aluminum" nitride has a black or very dark gray appearance. I do not know who will do this work these days. It is a extremely thin coating as well. IMO it is the best finish available if you can find someone who can apply it. If I recall, some people referred to this as a "TALON" finish.

EZ

So, what would you rec. for the order of doing the coating? I have a blued action. I want to have a SS barrel installed. Do I send the action off and have it done so the threads and all have been coated and then the barrel installed. Or do I have the barrel installed and then send the whole package off for the coating?

Where does the Remington XCR II TriNyte finish rank with these?

Birdsong

Ionbond

or Man-o-war

I tell you a good salt spray story. My first trip to AK. I get off the Grumman Goose on Afognak and 6 guys all have blue steel guns that were heavily rusted and pitted.

the first thing they asked was do you have gun oil. they used the whole can and left me nothing. their guns ever ruined anyway.

moral of the story. SS and fiberglass stock and some kind of coating over the SS.

Mine came home with no rust. LOL.

Flippy
Can the black-T finish be applied over a previously blued finish?

One of my 9.3s was finished in NP3 about 5yrs ago. It has been hunted hard and still looks new. I have a 416 that I had hard chromed and it has held up well. It will discolor from saltwater, but all I have to do is give it a slight scrub with a 3M pad and it's gone.

For blued and wood rifles, I am very impressed with Johnson's paste wax.

Gee,, Where's ya hear that? I thought it was my secret..

As typical, I agree with Mark Young.
In 1982 I aquired my first Brown Precision rifle and that has been "MY HUNTING RIFLE" ever since. I like it so much I had Mark Brown build me another in 375H&H.
Even though I have over 60 guns these 2 are basically the only ones I hunt with (except for my double 470).
Composit stocked, stainless, that is coated is the only way to go for hunting rifles, but you still need to clean them once in a while.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
Gee,, Where's ya hear that? I thought it was my secret..

Yes, Mike; I owe that trick to you!