.....Since I don,t want to keep being off topic I figured I should start a new one ....AkShooter ..., those 55 gr bullets out of the 223 , ,., they work well on fox .,., ???????? What I ,m asking is do they mess up the off side ???I was thinking I would need a 17 K Hornet for called in for and coyote , a 223 for longer and a 22/250 for wolves and far off coyotes ..........If I can do it all with a little 223 I,ll sure be happy .............



2nd perfact Alaskan rifle ., mainly for my wife .,.,.The new stainless synthetic 338 RCM ..20 " barrel ., iron sights and scope rings ....,I can have my smith back bore the muzzle and thread the inside of the back bore , and put a screw IN muzzle brake on ............Should reduce recoil to the level of her 308 ....with a 225 gr tsx or GSC HV .@ over 2700 fps ...................When I first saw the RCM,s I didn,t think much of them ,. but if it really weighs 6.5 lbs ,., put an ultra light Leupold scope on it and replace the Rear sight with an express rear ....Not that she shoots iron sights , but they are better for the long run as they don,t break as easy .......

Now I know most of you are just itching to tell me how loud muzzle brakes are ,.,. SAVE your effort .......If you don,t want one on your rifle , don,t get one .,., ...I don,t need one on a 338 ...Heck I was out shooting my Lott today , 400 gr bullet @ 2550 or there abouts with no muzzle brake today , so I don,t NEED one either ,......But I like them and will be glad when I get this Lott muzzle broke .....

Gumboot-

What you need to do is load up some bluedot loads for the 223 for fox, light loads that won't tear them up to badly, and full power loads for coyotes and wolves.

.That is part of the answer I was wanting to get at .................I want to get my wife a 223 Ruger compact , and probably I should call that good but I would like an M4 Flat top..........I imagine it would need a full power load to reliably cycle the action of an AR 15 .??.... I down loaded those Blue Dot loads and am waiting spring for the 223 ...........

You can do it all with a .223. No problem at all. Even though I have a swift I never use it.
I think it's really hard to beat a .223. It will do a good job from fox without blowing them up to wolf.

Allthough ammo for everything is getting expensive as well as bulk .223 you still can get bulk ammo and especialy components for far less money than most calibrs.

I have a hornet and a .222 along with the swift but it's the .223 that really dose it all just a$s well as the others.

A few things worth mentioning with the .22 cals and loading bulk .223. I've loaded in bulk for the .223 on my Dillon 550 the hornady 55 gr fmj's are the way to go. I bought 55 gr. Winchester fmj's and have been very unhappy with accuracy. The Hornady's are much better for only a little more money. I also bought 62 gr. ss 109 in bulk and they were even worse.

I keep a good number of my standerd bulk load on hand at all times. Usally a couple thousand. I will go to those for most of my .223's any time I just want to shoot or fire form brass. After shooting the bulk stuff from any one of the rifles I save the brass to a dedicated ammo box for that rifle. I then give it the same load with a high quality bullet of the same weight. In theory they then will all shoot to the same P.O.I. But much more accurately (and do in practice.)

With the bulk load I get between 1 to 2" at 100 yds depending on wich rifle I'm shooting. After fire forming and reloading I get half to 1" from the same rifle and load.

I like the idea of a blue dot load for a .223. Since I have the hornet I really don't need to do that. I haven't tried any light load in ether my M4 or 24" bushmaster varmint upper or my mini 14. I really don't think it's necissary to lighten up the loads if you have the fmj's. for thin skinned foxes or lynx. I've shot foxes with the A max and haven't had a problem but that is probably luck and I would reccomend staying with the fmj's.

I've shot fox,lynx, marmot and bobcat with the 55 gr. fmj and had no pelt damage. Back when I worked as a fur buyer I saw a number of fox etc blown up with .223 fmj milspec ammo that I belive struck bones and caused the problem.

The 50 or 55 gr Hornady at about 2800 fps doesn't tear fox or coyote at all. It will also kill a caribou quite handily with a lungshot.

..........2800 fps ..... should be easily do able from both the Ruger Compact 16.5" and the 16" M4 barrels ........I,ve been looking at the wild cat dies and they are pretty spendy for something that shoots a bullet so small that I need tweezers to put the bullet in the case . ..........I think this will be alot of fun ......

I have shot a lot of deer, Javalina, Antelope and African plainsgame with the 222 and 223, some with the 22-250, but my favorite small caliber is my 6x45...All my kids and grandkids cut their teeth on Mule Deer with the .222 and those wonderful 60 gr. Hornadys.

I use the 60 gr. Hornady SP or HP,(both perform the same) in the 222 and 223 and have gotten perfect expansion on every bullet that I recover, but most of the time I get a one or two inch exit hole..

In the 6x45 I have used the 75 gr. Barnes X with excellent results, but now use the GS Customs 75 gr. at around 2800 FPS in my 18 inch barrel...

These light calibers are excellent if you adjust your hunting to fit them..Don't try and stretch them, I keep shots at under 200 yards, and don't take chancy shots.

About all I use anymore for Mule Deer is my 6x45 or my old Win. 94 in 25-35 WCF...Works for me, and I do miss out on some shots that I could have made with a .270 or whatever, but thats OK, it doesn't bother me..

I am also very carefull about where I hunt with the light calibers, as sometimes they will not leave a good blood trail so I stay in the more open country or take head and neck shots in the thick stuff. This blood trail failure can also apply to the 243 class of cartridges..

Used properly they are excellent killers of rather big animals, but not for those that want to bang away at long range or take chancy shots, those folks need a bigger bore and thats OK..

Many hunters would not want to pass on a 30 plus inch mule deer at 300 yards, I would have to do that, and have on a couple of ocassions, but I get over it pretty quick. I have shot my share of big bucks so leave them for someone else that will appreciate them more than I...

What I am saying is the small calibers just arn't for everyone.

Gumboot,
ON ocassion even a solid in a .222 or .223 will tear a Bobcat or Fox in half..

I used that combo loaded down to 1800 FPS back when furs were really high and it worked pretty good..but on a couple of ocassions it too split a bobcat in half if the bullets tumbled..It is hard to control. softs and HP were devastating most of the time.

When calling I went to the Rem 5mm and the 22 Magnum or 22 L.R. and they worked fine up close. It seemed to be the better option on those high dollar furs. Also kept a shotgun loaded with no. 2's handy when calling.

It was a business with me and it and thinned out the preditors on my ranch while subsidizing my income by about $20,000 to $25,000 per year along with my trapping. But those high prices didn't last long..

......Thanks for the info .... I think I,m going to end up with 2 or 3 different loads with the 223 ....I imagine that the mildest load won,t cycle on the AR .....If I can duplicate a Hornet for called in ,,, a 50-55 gr @ 2800 and a 45-53 gr TSX as fast as it can go accurately .........either that or I,m going to have to get a 17 HMR or 22 mag also ...........I,ve seen alot of deer wounded and lost to the 223 so I,ve seen its bad side ....But I think with careful shot placement it will be a nice rifle to include and will give me alot of fun hunting opportunities that I don,t have here ...

I have been using the .222, 223, and to some extent a 22-250 for years on deer. All my kids and grandkids have used it on their first two or three deer..I have used it to cull in Africa and have never lost a single animal..

If you have seen it fail then I suspect its the nut behind the stock that failed...If one uses these light calibers he must adjust his hunting style to about that of a pistol hunter, keep shots within reason under 150 yards, take standing shots and in general use his head for something besides a hatrack...I have always used the 60 gr. Hornady SP or HP, they just work well on heart and lung shots, hunt in open country because if they run 75 or 100 yards you probably won't get a blood trail..but the same applies to the .243 in my books.

These calibers are not for the hunter that tries to do cutsy things with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I have been using the .222, 223, and to some extent a 22-250 for years on deer. All my kids and grandkids have used it on their first two or three deer..I have used it to cull in Africa and have never lost a single animal..

If you have seen it fail then I suspect its the nut behind the stock that failed...If one uses these light calibers he must adjust his hunting style to about that of a pistol hunter, keep shots within reason under 150 yards, take standing shots and in general use his head for something besides a hatrack...I have always used the 60 gr. Hornady SP or HP, they just work well on heart and lung shots, hunt in open country because if they run 75 or 100 yards you probably won't get a blood trail..but the same applies to the .243 in my books.

These calibers are not for the hunter that tries to do cutsy things with them.

...........Yes Ray .,all the deer I found that were wounded with the 223 or other fast 22,s were from spot lighters and boat hunters .,.,Some of them I know ,., And the shooting was at fault ....Ravens and Eagles make finding where the spot lighters were the night before easy sometimes........