I watched this DVD "Hunting Alaskas Coastal Giants", with Glacier Guides Inc., last night. Shortly into the show Jimmie C. Rosenbruch (Master Guide #61) states in a disclaimer that as per Alaskain law a guide has to shoot if he feels someones life is in danger or if he feels the animal was shot poorly making recovery difficult or impossible. OK, so I don't have a problem with that, if the bear is charging put lead in the air. But as I was watching the video I started noticing on 75% of the hunts they showed you'd hear two shots in rapid order, then you hear one or more rifle bolts being worked. I replayed several of the hunts, more than once, just to see if I wasn't mistaken. But from what I could tell it looked to me on most of the hunts the guide was shooting just seconds after the hunter, before the hunter could even work the bolt, no matter if the bear was in the open, away from heavy cover with plenty of time for the hunter to get in a scond shot or if the bear was fallatly hit or not. Looked to me like the if the bear didn't drop in its tracks the giude was shooting, sometimes more than once. Is this common? As most of you know I've never hunted Alaska or BB but I've done some hunting and have never had someone help me shot an animal. Admittedly I never had a real charge either, one sorta close encounter put that was finished in short order. I don't have a problem putting lead in the air, I normally shoot until the animal is down, even on deer, and like to finish what I start. So based on what I saw in the DVD I wouldn't hunt with these people or anyone like them. Whats your thoughts???

Another thing that bothered me is they stated they, Glacier Guides Inc., required you to hunt with a 375 or larger rifle, even for black bear. Half the DVD was about hunting BB. Now I have hunted BB 3 times and based on what I've seen I think thats just over the top. I just don't see where I "need" a 375 to hunt BB.

As a side note I have met and have hunted with on of the hunters in the DVD, which I thought was pretty cool.

that is a great policy. now you could save time and just send them a check and have the guide shoot it for you. does the trophy go in the guides house or yours?

g.g. has a long track record of producing good black bears. from everything that i have seen the quality of their b.b. is lacking. especially for the prices they charge. guess they have to pay the nut on that $4 million dollar boat...

Watching the DVD I got the impression that the guides where all too happy to hunt your dime and a bit too eager to pull the triger.

That would piss me right off...and on completion of the hunt they would not get so much as a frigging cracker from me in way of a tip...plus prior to decamping i would piss in their milk....

The rule is supposed to be that the guide stop the animal during a charge or getting into the bush where a messy "sorting out" would be guaranteed.

Unfortunately, SOME (not ALL) guides have taken this to mean they shoot when the client does. I repeat that all guides are not like this and will only fire during a charge while backing the client up or as the bear enters the alder/devils club jungles.

Talk to your guide before you book and find out their policy. If they have the policy that you aren't comfortable with, book with someone else.

Mark

All of the things you wrote about and a couple more are the reasons I work with who I do in SE Alaska.

Mark

I purchased that video...

My impression, in a few instances, the hunters were not up to the task...some of these folks needed help just walking around!, could not see or shoot! I think some of them were just happy to be alive and say they went Bear Hunting...

If it was my video...I would have focused on different hunters...but possibly they are catering to a certain demographic

Although, i did not see the current d.v.d., i do own the older v.h.s. "silent stalkers of the north" and i am familiar with their clientel.

j.j.s. which demographic are you referring to?

the overweight, need gourmet food everynight and all day, need to hunt from a $4 million dollar yacht with queen size beds, over 60 y.o.a., i can't hike or shoot, but want to tell my friends i was b.b. hunting in alaska demographic?

You have every right to feel the way you do. The law has been correctly quoted in other posts
when it comes to guides and their responsibilities. When hiring a guide it is always a strong suggestion to shop. Just like when you by a truck, you want to end up with what you like. There are some out in the world
that conduct business for the money. In my book it is the experience that somewhat offsets the cost of a Brown Bear hunt. This apparently would not be your choice if you were hiring a guide. There are some might fine guides out there.

Videos and The Outdoor Channel are not the best places to get ideas for a brown bear hunt....the best guides don't have time for that type of activity and have asst. guides that have been w/them for a number of years that know whatit takes to be successful.....it's your responsibility to sift through info and live w/your decision. There are a number of respectable guides out there and w/lots of research they can be found.....

Just because they're expensive doesn't mean they're good.

Joe

cold zero:

I will be more than happy to send you my copy at no charge..if you pay the postage.

jjs






guess that means you won't be going with them either...

cold zero,

Forget the postage...just PM me your address!



I hope I can find it now..

How interesting. I just finnished posting (on the topic about calibers for brown bear in this foroum) about how I personally guided for 5 brown bears last year and did not shoot even one of them. There are for sure times when it is prudent to pull the trigger as a guide but in reality I fire on maybe one bear out of every half dozen or so. Some guides are over the top on this suject. But then again what do I know I'm only master guide #124.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jjs:
I purchased that video...

My impression, in a few instances, the hunters were not up to the task...some of these folks needed help just walking around!, could not see or shoot! I think some of them were just happy to be alive and say they went Bear Hunting...


Oh, now i understand, they get customers who are blind...now that explains why they did not see the clause in the contract stating that "the guide will be shooting your bear for you", but you can bring your gun for the trophy photos.

how hard is it for them to get the bears to walk down the beach near the yacht so the clients can shoot their bear from the dining table.

Been there, done that, and you are wrong to judge this experience based on a video. My wife used her .308 with Jimmie C's outfit and all went well.

My but aren't we sanctimonious judging other people unfit to hunt anymore because they are too old or infirm. I hunted with Glacier Guides when this some of this video was being shot. I don't know how anyone can criticize a 78 year old lady who is more courageous and has more love of hunting in in her little finger than most posting on this forum. What do you want those over 60 to do? I guess sell their guns and go to a nursing home. Glacier Guides will make it as difficult as you like. They will take a follow up shot when the first shot is not on the money. If you disagree with that policy, I suggest you tell them don't shoot and do the follow up yourself. The rain forests of ABC look like a great place to meet a wounded bear and I'm sure those who post here and are "worthy" hunters will enjoy the experience. The video shows the kill portion of the hunt. The 1/2 mile walks through tidal mud and hiking up salmon streams strewm with downed timber was not shown but is there. I suspect that some of the posts generated are sour grapes and aimed at people who have earned the ability to enjoy a little luxury.

Having read this forum for a while now I am pretty certain that like myself, each post was given from experience, observation an opinion.
I for one take out the elderly hunting and fishing each year. I get excited every time one of these special people gets to enjoy the out of doors. Sanctomonious seems a bit out
of the box as I am pretty certain that if I were to call most anyone on this forum, each would go out of their way to help anyone make a dream come true. That would also include letting the individual harvest for themselves
to enjoy the whole experience. The whole experience for me is when one or more of these special people come into my meat room and help me butcher,, make sausage and the like. They
Enjoy this more than the hunt because it brings back the family attitude and companion friendship as well as many memories from years gone by. In no case have I used the opportunity
to shoot an animal or hook a fish for someone else. I know for a fact that some of these people have more money than most. They hunt for the reason that any true hunter can give.

Respectful Submitted

I did not mean to offend anyone and if I did, I owe an appology which I hope you accept!

The initial posting/post referred to guides being quick on the trigger and I suggested why that might have occured...but I did this in a very poor fashion.

Just getting outdoors and doing what one is capable of doing is all that anyone can ask...I did not mean to suggest otherwise.

I puchased the video due to my interest in Brown Bear Hunting...my dissappointment with the video had to do with the focus on Blacks and Browns...

LJS and ncooper you are correct...to suggest otherwise is wrong.

Again, if I offended anyone I appologize..I did not mean such...

Thank you

No offense taken- Just a point of view expressed. Having guided and being around the industry on a daily basis for many decades I see some things that should not happen. The sterile environement this screen produces though very much enjoyed, sometimes does not convey the meaning of the sender. Yes, sometimes it does.
Neal

Jim:

No worries. I apologize for jumping on my soap box. I was just so impressed by this gal I felt I had to speak up. By the way she collected the big five staring at age 70+.

LJS

LJS

Taking the "Big Five", at any age, is an accomplishment to note! She has done something most of us can only dream about!

Lions scare the heck out of me but I may have been cured last year. Circumstances had me face to face with a big male at 20 yds...focus seemed to make fear non-existant at that point

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ovis:
Videos and The Outdoor Channel are not the best places to get ideas for a brown bear hunt....successful.....it's your responsibility to sift through info and live w/your decision. There are a number of respectable guides out there and w/lots of research they can be found.....

Just because they're expensive doesn't mean they're good.


---------------------------------------------
well, it looks like ovis and jjs hit the nail on the head.

2 of my friends/members from my local s.c.i. chapter went on a combination brown and black bear hunt with glacier guides, against my advice, since their primary was the brown bear.

if you would like to read about both of their experiences you could get the april edition of the hunting report newsletter and look under "the good the bad and the ugly" section, look under horrible, you can order both of these gentleman's reports.

b.t.w. one of the gents was mauled in tanzania when our embassy was bombed and was medjeted back to manhattan the other has been helo medevaced from a horse related accident breaking numerous ribs and concusion, he's also got a trophyroom with 30' ceilings and it is filled. i know and have hunted with both of these guys and you would have to look for a long time to find guys with more hunting exp' worldwide than these 2. i tried to tell them....


.308 sako , i am glad that your wife had a good hunt with them. however, that does not mean that they have a stellar record for brown bear nor that most people leave satisified. lets look at the big picture. i am well familiar with g.g. operation over the last 12 years and i was not wrong about the above, nor overly harsh. they do have a niche of the market, the older crowd. the serious trophy hunters do not go there.

l.j.s. the hunt is not supposed to be about how difficult g.g. can make your hunt, but how is the trophy quality that they have been producing over a period of years for the trophy size prices they are charging? i beleive the free market is great and if they can find hunters (mostly older guys) to pay their prices that is great. but, what about the quality of the animal the hunter is taking home? it is not all about the g.g. cruise ship that you stay on or how courses the meals were. it is suposed to be a hunt after all...

I have got to tell you that Hunting Alaskas Coastal Giants was the most pathetic hunting video I have seen in some time. Advertise the most expensive optics as a minumum standard for use and the a 375 H&H minimum for Black Bear? What the hell is the matter with these people. Half of the shooters couldn't shoot, maybe they should have been shooting a 7mm that they might actually have been able to hit the broadside of a barn with. Missing a Griz at 80 yards with a scope and a rest, come on. Hunting out of a 2 million dollar yacht wearing $500 worth of Weatherby wool, but I do have to add that the captains daughter was good eye candy. My buddy bought the video, what a waste of money.

quote:

Originally posted by AlaskaCub:
what a waste of money.

Agreed!

Glacier Guides has been in business a long time and has a lot of detractors but I am sure has also turned out a lot of happy customers. They cater to the top end crowd which all to often includes the aged and infirmed as well as the super wealthy. I have not been on their hunts but doubt they are the simple, rugged affairs most working hunters imagine "Alaskan hunting" to be.
As for guides shooting; each hunt is unique with some hunters actually insisting their guide shoot immediately after they do and others equally adamant that their guides never shoot. I personally do not like either option but have learned that the hunter who is open to his guide shooting -IF THEY FEEL IT IS NECESSARY - has the most realistic and humane view of bear hunting. If you have ever visited SE Alaska and seen it's dense vegetation and steep terrain you can easily see how quickly a wounded bear could vanish.
Guides are constantly faced with the possibility of either a wounded bear escaping or having to track a wounded one in unbelievably thick brush.
I tell all of my clients that they are the hunter and as long as they do their job and shoot correctly my job is simply to take photos, skin the animal and pack it out. If they can't, then ethics and state law require me to use my best judgement and stop a wounded animal from escaping or charging.

Cold Zero, Pam and I hunted black bear only, and while the food was good and plentiful it wasn't gourmet by our standards. I've been on 3 other Alaskan hunts and none were as good as this one. Additionally, one was with a to be SCI Outfitter of the year... Out of Kodiak, and truth be known, that man is an out and out thief and lier. Our hunt with GG was 11 years ago almost to the day, but on the smaller boat. At that time I was 45 now, and Pam 39... so we weren't an over 60 crowd. Still, everyone has different perspective on what he sees, and what he likes. There are aspects of what I see portrayed on TV and in these "hunting" videos which appall me. Just my 3 cent's with inflation included.

One of the other considerations was the fact that the experience and the travel involved to make this hunt with my spouse was the concept of the inside passage cruise experience combined with a hunt. From this point of view the trip was a great success. I was raised on the water as a blue water sailor, and fisherman, not as a hunter. I must guess that the hunter in me came from my "errant" gene! The part of the water I wished to share with my wife. For us, it was a wonderful match.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I tell all of my clients that they are the hunter and as long as they do their job and shoot correctly my job is simply to take photos, skin the animal and pack it out. If they can't, then ethics and state law require me to use my best judgement and stop a wounded animal from escaping or charging.

458 win; that policy you have is terrific. it is fair to the hunter, reasonable, ethical and in compliance with ak. state law.

more outfitters should enforce such a co. policy on their guides. things would go better that way for the outfitter and the client.

i think your assesment/summation of g.g. although more eloquent than mine, says the same thing and is spot on. for guys that want a 19"+ blk. bear and want some luxury, they are a fine choice, if that is your thing. for brwn. bear that is another story.

.308 sako; it sounds like your hunt was a success on many levels. sometimes to keep peace at home and keep your number of hunts up, you have to take the wife sometimes. if you wanted to take her and have the inside passage experience, you could not have made a better choice in those regards if that was your criteria. it is just a different critieria than mine thats all. as to the quality of the food were you comparing it to home or to the quality of other outfitter's food in the field as i was? although, i have not eaten with g.g., i doubbt if you will find better seafood fare. you also made a wise decision to hunt blk, bear only with them, smart move .

this thread is one of the rare ones where in the end, i think now we all agree.

the kodiak outfitter could be mentioned by name. i have a feeling that i have hunted with him too. those here that know me, know i will not hesitate to mention a lousy outfitter by name or praise a good outfitter just as fast. i call it like i see it. the guys here on the ak. forum read and learn, when guys let us know when they have had a bad or good experience. you are helping the other members out by identifying the bad outfitters. p.m. me if you prefer. glad you had a good hunt, unfortunenately my 2 friends were not as lucky.

Cold Zero, I also tell all of my hunters that if an animal is wounded then that is their animal and no other will be hunted. It has been my rule ever since I started guiding and I have found that that seems to impress the hunter enough that they have no problem if a guide really has to step in.
I also believe in stalking close enough that you can't miss. It's more fun as well as more productive and it's an unusual year that either I, or any of my guides, actually has to shoot.

Cold Zero, You are quite right about the food being some of the best seafood, but I am spoiled in what comes to my plate from many fine past experiences, and a fabulous cook for a wife. The man in question is missing a finger which I can only hope is stuck up his rectum. I picketed his booth at SCI and was escorted off the floor by security and was told that only because of my life member status would I not be expelled. The then current Pres of SCI sat laughing in his booth. I was not amused by this and have lowered my opinion of the organization no small amount.

Yes, 458 Win has the exactly correct mind set on when to step in. I do believe we are all on the same page here.

quote:

Originally posted by 308Sako:
Cold Zero, You are quite right about the food being some of the best seafood,
I picketed his booth at SCI and was escorted off the floor by security and was told that only because of my life member status would I not be expelled. The then current Pres of SCI sat laughing in his booth. I was not amused by this and have lowered my opinion of the organization no small amount.
Yes, 458 Win has the exactly correct mind set on when to step in. I do believe we are all on the same page here.

i love it , i love it. it seems to me the outfitter sitting at his booth is the one that should have been shown the door and or not even sold the booth in the first place. that is how s.c.i. is, the outfitters can get away with bloody murder if they rent a booth at the convention. the members should come first.
outfitters should not be strong armed into making a donation that they do not want to and this would not happen. outfitters who donate hunts get better locations (higher foot traffic)for their booths.

i am a longtime s.c.i. member and a 3 year member of their patron's club. i went to conventions in both reno and vegas. i had problems with several hunts that were bought at auction and they could care less. for i.e. one in mexico where the oufitter had me buy a plane ticket and then told me he is not honoring his donation. of course i had paid s.c.i. for the hunt in full at the convention. this same outfitter left several other s.c.i. members at the airport and never picked them up. all of this is well documented in an "hunting report newsletter" article. what did s.c.i. do about it....i think you know.

yes, i did get a refund for the hunt many months later, after my attorney handled it for me and i was out the plane ticket. we no longer go to the conventions, i am no longer in the patron's club and now have a firm understanding of how the club really works. i have never seen a club care less for the well being of it's members.

the bad part is, i used to buy some hunts on the flr. of the convention as well. since i no longer have that opportunity, i buy less hunts now. i prefer to deal face to face if possible, after doing thorough research.

Great minds think alike, and I salute your stand. The original reason I joined was to attend and meet the outfitters face to face. As you know much has changed. The majority of my dealings with the club have been negative on my end. Can only blame myself....

I concur on Rosenbruch's Daughter. I own both this one and the old Silent Stalkers of the North video. I think the daughter was like 13 in the last one, she sure is a super attractive gal now. Too bad she is married to that pussy.

It continues to amaze me the number of really beautiful women in Alaska! 7 more years in the Navy and I'll be back for good.

Ok, I can get past the 86 foot $5,000,000 boat. Lots of people in SE hunt off of similar charter boats and yachts.

I can get past Jimmy Rosenbruch snoring away sleeping in the field while out with clients.

The 375 minimum is his choice, he guides hunters, and is personally responsible for them. I think it's a dumb personal rule, but it's understandable.

It's an interesting video, with good footage, that serves primarily as a advertisement for Rosenbruchs guiding operation. Take it as that and it's a lot easier to like it.

The stupidest part on my half was paying Outdoor Visions $40 for the fucking thing.

40 bucks? I'd be pissed too, and I produced it. I spend a lot of time on this site, but usually in the Africa forums, so this is the first I've seen of this thread.

Sorry to hear of anyone disappointed in the video. For me, watching a 78 year old grandma out hunting bear was probably one of the most inspiring things I've seen. I hear a lot of 50-70 year old men crying about being to old to get out and hunt. After watching Betty and her attitude of living life to it's fullest, I know there's no excuse other than being a pussy. I personally can't speak for Jimmie or Glacier Guides on their hunting rules and procedures. He's been guiding bear for nearly 45 years so he's probably seen enough reasons to recommend the rifles that he does. Everyone knows bear can be killed with less than a .375, but a big caliber definitely adds insurance to bear recovery. As far as the Swarovski promo goes. My observation was that hunters who had lesser quality glass on their rifle, severely limited their odds of success. Many bears are shot in extremely low light. I only wish my cameras would have operated as well in low light. There would have been twice as many brown bear kill shots in the video. Anyway, constructive criticisim is good. I have thick skin. It's the only way you can improve next time around.

quote:

Originally posted by filmit:
40 bucks? I'd be pissed too, and I produced it

quote:

Everyone knows bear can be killed with less than a .375, but a big caliber definitely adds insurance to bear recovery

With the caveat that they can shoot it properly. Having an across the board rule for .375 only, particularly on black bear, sounds a lot ridiculous to me.

filmit;

yes, jimmie has been around a lont time. how come other outfitters do not have a 375 req' for black bear? most do not have that req' for b.b. either. there are several highly experienced outfitters who are members here that do not advocate that either. after 45 years in the field and now falling asleep on clients maybe he should retire now. falling asleep while being paid the kind of money he charges, is both very unprofessional and a safety hazard.

as for the grandmother who hunts, most guys when they spend $40 for a hunting video want to see kill shots up close and great scenary, not grandmothers. swarovski is so shamelessly promoted you would think it was a commercialand not a video. why not make a scope manufacturer req' before guys can go out in the field with jimmie?

anyone else care to weigh in here?

It's a $40 Jimmi Rosenbruch, Remington Custom Shop, and Swarovski commercial.

If your planning on hunting with them it's a good video.

If your planning on hunting with someone else it's not.

Haven't seen the DVD. Unsure of where the guided hunts are taking place in the movie? Are the guides preventing the bears from plowing into the brush (potential to be lost) or just blasting away for no apparant reason?

One point to ponder is that back in the ADF&G 05-06 regs as well as current regs, at least for units 1-4 a newer SEAK reg states the following:

"In Units 1-4, a black or brown bear wounded by a hunter counts as the bag limit for the regulatory year. "Wounded" means there is sign of blood or other sign that the bear has been hit by the hunting projectile."

Makes some sense for the guides to make sure the bear's down solid, (brownie's in particular) if ther's any chance of it being lost.
If the bear's lost, then the client's tag is "done" for that year. Not able to legally continue pursuit of another bear. Good reg in my opinion, to enhance better shot selection/placement. Less wasted game.

p.e. n' Sitka

Seems Jack Brittingham had a bad hunt with GG as well. Was looking through The Hunting Report and found his report from a 1999 Blackie hunt.