What do you experts think of the 44 Mag Lever rifle as a Bear protection gun.

I have had 3 different 44 Mag rifles over thre years.

The one I have now is a Winchester Trapper with the 16"bbl.

It is very short light and handy.

With proper ammo, I think it would have the penetration necessary to do the job.

The recoil is very low and they hold 8 or 9 rounds.

I bought this 44 as a "camp gun" for my wife when we hunted in Montana.

I bought a Marlin 45/70 for me.

The 45/70 is gone, I still have the 44 Mag.

I also like the 44 for a "road gun" when traveling as it is not as "evil" as 223 or 308 paramilitary rifles, yet still has a little firepower, plenty of "thump" and penetrates well.

All in all I think the 44 Lever makes a pretty good rifle to have "around".

I know a guy who had one converted to handle the garret 44 loads. It would definately be better than a sharp stick if it where to come to it. I regularly carry a 44 revovler with 300gr hard cast loads while fishing and hunting. I think it will do as good as anything else up close.

With stiff, hard cast bullets a determained, cool headed person with one should be perfectly safe from un-provoked bears.

quote:

With stiff, hard cast bullets a determained, cool headed person with one should be perfectly safe from un-provoked bears.

458Win
If the bear is un-provoked why would you need a firarm for selfdefense?

DR B

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:

quote:

With stiff, hard cast bullets a determained, cool headed person with one should be perfectly safe from un-provoked bears.

458Win
If the bear is un-provoked why would you need a firarm for selfdefense?

DR B

I think that commonly means not harrased or shot poorly, like a guide would deal with.

I don't think the 16" barrel on your trapper will be legal in Canada, I think they consider 18" the limit for carbines. Just thought I would mention this since it's between Texas and Alaska.

Mr. T

You know I'm a proponet of a .44 revover as a bear protection gun while fishing or what ever. I especialy like your mountain gun.

Your trapper will do anything and more than a revolver so I can't say it won't work. It will.

I think if I were to carry a rifle though I'd prefer something a little heavier. How much heavier and bulky is a marlin guide gun compared to your trapper?

Winchester did chamber the 94 in .444 and 450 Marlin for a short run. Although their collectors items now one of these cut down to a trapper would be the ticket and maybe not much heavier than your .44 trapper

My thoughts of the 44 Mag rifle would be mainly for people not accustomed to heavy recoil, might even be non hunters, wives, and fisherman.

They might practice enough with the 44 to effective.

My buddy up north uses a 44-40 for griz, moose and caribou hunting. its also his camp gun. Worked for him for the last 42 years.

Is the 44mag carbine a perfect bear gun? I dont think so but will it work? yup.

I personally would like something bigger but if its what you got and you can use it...go for it.
Chances are you wont use it anyway.

If I had my "druthers" I would never/ever shoot a Brown Bear with a 44 mag. You might piss him off. I would shoot a Black bear with one. If you shoot a Brown Bear anywhere but in the head with a 44 Mag., He will munch on you until he eventually expires.
Before I would use a 44 Mag., I'd get a 30-30. Check the reloading manuals for a comparison of energy and velocity.
I've got a couple 50 AEs that we use for tent guns. I would hesitate to use them on a Brown Bear unless he was crunching on my foot.
Get yourself a 12 gauge shotgun.

I think all too often folks rely on fire power rather than using what should be their first line of defense...their brain.

MG

TJ,

I'm sure you read the Anchorage Daily News article from last fall regarding my friend here in Dillingham that killed a charging brown bear point blank with his .44 revolver.

I think he'll be carrying the same revolver this fall.

MG,

Absolutely right!!

Your bear/whatever backup gun is secondary to your personal behavior and actions.

I still think carrying a shotgun for bear protection is the way to go but when hiking and fishing I don't like the extra weight. So I sold my 1300 Defender and bought a Ruger New Super Blackhawk in 44 mag to carry instead. With 320 grain Core-Bons it should be deadly at close range.

quote:

Originally posted by AzGuy:
MG,

Absolutely right!!

Your bear/whatever backup gun is secondary to your personal behavior and actions.

You're right. So say Mr ex-Treadwell.

camp gun is a 12g w/00buck,sidearm is a 45 auto

I guess what I never understood in my years in bear country was why would a guy that hunted bear with 338 or other medium heavy rifle carry a pee shooter for close range protection. I would think the direct opposite in that at normal hunting ranges you could be pretty confident that a 30-06 or whatever would do the trick in the hands of a good rifleman but at close range you might need all the horsepower you could muster. I carried my 458 when camping or fishing and felt pretty comfortable with it.

I'm also sure in the hands of a very cool head Tony's 44 carbines with hard cast heavy bullets would do the trick but in the hands of the average person they might be in deep shit.

Mark

They might end up in deep shit!
~Arctic~

Speaking of shotguns for bear protection. I've only used them for bird hunting. Someone said 00 buck, what about slugs? Do you need to have a special barrel to shoot slugs or can I shoot them out of my normal barrel?

I carry the biggest gun I can shoot effectivel; my Ruger 45 Colt Bisley, with 360gr bullets at 1100 fps.

Make no mistake, 44 mag and 45 Colt leverguns kick and kick hard when loaded heavily. They come straight back and fast, alot of training is needed to shoot heavy loads in them quickly, and a good recoil pad helps. They are wonderful guns, but are not for the recoil shy or inexperienced. For an inexperienced, recoil shy person the best bear protection is a buddy experienced in shooting a 458!

Medium, you can shoot slugs from a regular shotgun barrel but I don't believe they would be very accurate at long distance's. With that being said, you probably aren't going to shoot it long distance anyways if your carrying for bear protection. The Brenekke 600 grain Dangerous Game slugs are what I use to carry, at very close range I can only imagine the damage they would cause to a bear.

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
camp gun is a 12g w/00buck,sidearm is a 45 auto

You're talking New York city here and not Alaska right?

camp is where the meat pole is,nyc or wyo.camp raiders come in all shapes and sizes and colors. i personally don't use slugs.there are something like 18 of the 32 caliber "buck" in a 00buck round.i might miss with a single slug

Ravenr, the meat pole shouldn't be where camp is...no wonder why you've got bears in camp!!!

If you cat hit a bear with a single slug, you won't kill him with 00 buck either. But don't worry, most mortals can't anyhow but sure seem to think they can..

MG

A 44 mag in a rifle is about equivalent to the 454 in a handgun, provided proper bullets are used.

To the proponets of 00 buck, a single pellet is about on part with a 380 acp. If you rely on pattern to make up for shot placement, you are hoping a single pellet will make it into the brain. If you use a tight choke to keep the pattern together, you have effectively a single projectile weapon with less terminal performance than a slug. I used to carry a 12 ga until I started experimenting on the range and in the woods.

In a revolver, the 44 mag makes sense as a prudent minimum, in a long gun, the 338 win mag makes sense as a prudent minimum. There are 10,000 opinions as to what makes a good bear gun, and a small collection of folks who've been unfortunate enough to find out what will reliable work, and what won't. Filter out the opinions and seek the advice of those who've been there.

i don't want to have to hit him at all this is just the recipe i feel comfortable with,the 47 griz i saw from jul-nov.last year never made it past the red heeler, so i guess my mortal has never been tested

This thread reminds me of the old joke I was once told.
Qu. What do I do if attacked by a Bear?
A. Throw Sh--t in his face and run.
Qu. Where am I going to get this Sh--t?
A, Don't worry, when the time comes, you
won't have far to reach.
Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
i don't want to have to hit him at all this is just the recipe i feel comfortable with,the 47 griz i saw from jul-nov.last year never made it past the red heeler, so i guess my mortal has never been tested

I would have to agree...I'll take two heelers over a shotgun, pretty good keeping bears out of camp.

MG

I keep a 10 Ga. 3 1/2 mag with slugs for camp and carry a 45 colt in the ruger blackhawk frame as a sidearm when backcountry camping. The 10 Ga gun is inexpensive and easily replaced if to be missing or stolen unlike a safari grade rifle. This is part of my non-hunting or out of season gear, but kept as camp/hiking/scouting defense tools. R.