Fixin to take er to the range and sight in with the NECG sights.

I was expecting the finish to be dark gray and black, but the gray turned out a little more blue than expected. I suppose that's OK.

Took the shine off anyway.


KB















This is what it feeds on:





This is what it looked like before:



This is what it does at the range:





This is what it's for:

A 458 Win Mag SHORT THROAT.

A most excellent idea. Several years I read a story in Rifle, or Handloader Magazine whre a fella had done the same.

There is not much need for 500gr bullets in a 458 Win Mag, in North America, but 350 and 400gr bullets in a 458 Win Mag is an excellent choice.

You have a BUNCH OF THUMP, managable recoil, excellent accuracy, cases and good bullets easy to find, and affordable.... Whats not to like???

I can also say that the Hornady 350gr bullet at velocities from 1800 fps to 2330fps just flat works.

I just got back from the range - sighting in some 350 gr Hornady at about 2300 fps. I'm not used to iron sights, so it's a bit of work, compared to using as scope. Off the bench the recoil is sharp with such a light rifle. If actually used in a time of need, probably the recoil will be the least worry.

Anyway, it's ready to go, but there are a few glitches that I'm still working with.

The short throat, BTW, is in case a relative inherits the rifle. I want anyone who looks at it to know it ain't factory for safety reasons. In fact it won't chamber a factory round. The throat is actually a 45-70 throat, which has worked out well. I figured that if it has worked for over 100 years, it should work now.

KB

Yes there is no real need to be able to chamber a 500gr factory load for what you want to do...

Also, considering Recoil, I have shot a bunch of stuff with the 350gr Hornady bullet.

It does as well at 1800fps on game, maybe even better on big stuff than it will do at 2330fps. Drop your loads to say 1900 fps. It will cut down or recoil, and terminal performance will be even better...

OK. Good suggestion. That's part of the fun and appeal of the 458. It's very adaptable. Sub-sonic loads, all the way up to near 2400fps with 350 gr bullets. About 2300 with 400 gr. - tops. Easily duplicates stout 45-70 loads. I can't think of many cartridges so flexable in load data.

That's why I went with the special throating. IMO, it adds flexability in the bullet weights I care to use. I didn't mind at all to exclude the bullets heavier than 405gr.

I thought about doing this chambering for many years. I always figured it to be a good idea, but just couldn't find solid evidence of it having been done before and with good results. I just wanted a bolt action 45-70 that feeds perfect. I think a 45-70 in a bolt action is just asking for continuous trouble, with the rim. Going with the 458 chamber and 45-70 throat was a bit of a calculated experiment that seems to be working out darn near perfect for my needs.

Messing with it tonight, I think I resolved the glitch. I shot it a lot before sending it to be coated, and it always fed great, with all the loads I tried. I'm actually very particular about that - to always test and make sure everything is working right before coating. Yesterday and today, I noticed that it would jam with the flat nose bullets, and I noticed the follower doesn't stay where it belongs. I compared it to another Ruger factory magnum follower tonight, and it's not the same. Apparantly it got switched somehow. I put a factory follower in there, and now it feeds perfect again. I suppose I should consider my luck that nothing else seems switched or amiss.

I started a discussion a few months ago about having a custom barrel/chamber done, and as the customer being the first to shoot/test it. This is an example of what I was talking about. The gunsmith cut the chamber to my specs, and used some dummy rounds that I made up to ensure that they would chamber, and not contact the lands at the seating depth of the dummy rounds. Actually, I'm pretty sure the chamber is SAAMI, but what makes it a wildcat is the throat. I'm pretty sure the throat is SAAMI too, or real close, but not for the 458. The gunsmith never shot it. I loaded up some rounds, checking to make sure they would chamber properly and took it to the range with little worry. No problems at all with handloads, but of course I didn't start with hot loads, or anywhere close to that.

KB

Well I will say you did think ahead and marked the barrel "SHORT THROAT".

The 458 bullets that will preform best at your velocities are the 350 Hornady, from 1800 to 2330fps [baised on my personal actual use], and baised on their design, the Speer 350gr, and the Barnes 350gr X, the North Fork 350gr just might be the best bullet of all above 2200fps...

Ane the Swift 400gr night be the best 400gr bullet for your use.

Most of the other 400/405 gr bullets are better suited to the 45/70 velocities.

Since you are in AK, I would pick one bullet and "do" the load/recoil I wanted, for the game/area I hunted in.

How do those Barnes tipped bullets shoot out of that rifle? I've been thinking of ordering some for my .458 SOCOM and also to try as a light load for my .458 Win Mag.

What a cool rig!

What caliber was the original rifle and what did you have it coated with?

What is the advantage of that chambering over the .450 Marlin?

It appears to be practically the same as far as ballistics, yet the .450 Marlin ammo is available over the counter.

Anybody remember a baseball player for the Orioles named Mike Epstein? After baseball he became an elk hunting outfitter and gun nut. He invented a short 458 obviously called the 458 Epstein. I think it was pretty similar.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Well I will say you did think ahead and marked the barrel "SHORT THROAT".

the Swift 400gr night be the best 400gr bullet for your use.

Marking it "short throat" was decided after talking with the gunsmith. It would be technically incorrect to simply mark it 458 Win Mag. If I had known whatever they used to mark the barrel would cut so deep, I probably would have done it below the stock line, on the underside of the barrel.

I tried some 400 gr Swift bullets today at the rangev - the target at about 20 yds. Worked well, but sharp recoil, managable though. AA 2230 at 75grs is all the case will hold, and still allow proper seating and crimping. It's about all the recoil that I want to deal with, so it'll do. I've got a stash of 350gr Swifts and about 125 Barnes 350gr, and I like those too.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by big_foot:
How do those Barnes tipped bullets shoot out of that rifle? I've been thinking of ordering some for my .458 SOCOM and also to try as a light load for my .458 Win Mag.

I like the Barnes SOCOM blue tipped bullets, and they are accurate in this rifle. They shoot very close to the same place at 100 yds as the 350gr Hornadys, and the 350gr Speers. I have no idea how they will do in a standard throat 458, but I consider them the best choice for any deer or hog hunting I want to do with this rifle.

With this rifle, I'm going to try something else that I haven't done before. I have a 30mm 2x7 Leupold scope and a cute little 4x Leupold shotgun scope in one inch tube. When I have time, I plan on sighting the rifle in with the Barnes 300gr SOCOM blue tips with one of those scopes, then remove it and put it back several times to see if it returns to zero as it should. That way, I can remove the NECG rear sight, set it aside, install the scope and take it hunting using the blue tips. Later, when I'm in the mood for a hike, I can put the NECG rear sight back on and go. At least in theory it should work. I'll see about that in due time.

Those 300gr Blue Tips gotta be good in the SOCOM. As I recall, I used RL7, and seated the bullets right on top of the powder, slighly compressed. I can't remember the charge weight, and I'm not at home right now to check.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by A7Dave:
What caliber was the original rifle and what did you have it coated with?

The rifle was factory in 300 WM. I made no alterations to the action, and it feeds great. The coating is Black T and Dark Gray T - W.E. Birdsong, Inc.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by The Shottist:
What is the advantage of that chambering over the .450 Marlin?

It appears to be practically the same as far as ballistics, yet the .450 Marlin ammo is available over the counter.

For starters, I like handloads. It offers more choices.

This barrel is from PacNor. It has a 20" twist rate. It started as a 450 Marlin chamber on a Ruger short action, which was initially a 350 Rem Mag. I was so confident that it would feed, partially from reading about others who had done it, that I didn't check it well enough before proceeding. When I got it back, from the gunsmith, after it was supposedly finished, it would jam. It was very disappointing. I messed with it a little bit, and quickly came to the conclusion that it wasn't going to work out for me. So, I pulled the barrel, and sold the action and the Hogue stock.

I held on to the barrel for maybe two years, then decided to go ahead and ask PacNor to install it on the standard long action in 458 (ST). It was already threaded, so they set it back a little to make it right for the narrower belt, and reamed the chamber with their tools. They measured off some dummy rounds that I sent, but essentially the chamber is normal SAAMI. It just has a custom throat that is just long enough to clear the bullets when seated to the proper place. I haven't tried Swift 450 gr bullets. They may work, but I'll probably not try them. I did try to chamber some 500 gr factory rounds, because I was curious, and they hit the rifling and won't allow the bolt to close. That's a good thing IMO - for this rifle.

So, in summary, it's a feeding issue comparing the 458WM to the 450M. Besides, when you get down to it, with handloads, the case capacity of the 458WM isn't what I call generous. It's enough for my needs. I'm pretty sure the 450 Marlin case is less versitle, simply due to less capacity. I can use RL7, H & IMR 4198 & 4895, AA 2230, 3031, and several others, probably including H335 and H322, but I havent tried them. I use SR 4759 for reduced loads. Trail Boss works too for subsonic loads.

I know - I know - the 450 Marlin is practically the same in case capacity as the 45-70, which is well proven. I would probably be just as happy with a 450 Marlin in a bolt action, with the huge IF it would feed properly -- well let's say perfectly. So, by going with the 458, I gained slicker feeding and a little powder capacity, with no loss on the down side. I see no disadvantage with the 458. Every aspect I look at is a +++.

KB

Kb I really like your rifle!AWSOME!!
Checkout AA5744 ,you can do it all with that powder/bullet/rifle combo

Where are those piggies at? Kenai?

I've had front hoods covering irons. I suspect with the cutouts you've added to the hood, it will snag a fair amount of brush. Let us know how this works out for you. I run the Firesight front bead on my .375-338 naked.

Out the North Road, past Kenai.

No really - South Texas.

I'm hoping the hood stays put. I may glue it on. It comes off pretty easy, but not from recoil, since it goes on the back side. I dunno about snagging brush. I didn't add the cutouts. The hood came that way.

It was a choice of hood or no hood, and I chose hood. Staying put is a seperate issue from the initial choice. With the fiber optic insert, I figure that it needs a hood for protection. This NECG sight is rather tricky. The screws are small and I think there is only one screw holding it on. I'm in the habit of checking it often, because I don't want to lose it. Birdsong may have used loctite, I don't know yet, but time will tell. If it gets loose, I'll pull it off and I'll use loctite, if I have to, when I put it back on.

KB

Personally I would prefer using the 458 Win Mag case vs the 450 Marlin case.

Also I think marking the barrel SHORT THROAT, where it is easily seen, is not only the right thing to do, but necessary for saftey IMHO.