Does anyone have practical experiences with the heavy Woodleigh bullet?

I wonder if it gives you any relevant advantage over a standard 180gr bullet when hunting big game like moose or bear.

- Lars/Finland

I tried them and they killed OK but I couldn't find any loads that gave any kind of accuracy in either of my rifles and I assumed it was due to twist rate. I also found that they typically didn't retain much more than 150-160 grs and gave no better penetration than 150 gr Partitions.

Thanks, Phil - I sort of expected you to chime in on this!

I'm surprised about the poor penetration.
Of course, the accuracy issue is easy to understand given the twist rates of modern rifles.

So I suppose that I'll stick with the AccuBonds or Norma Oryx for moose and Namibian PG next July!

- Lars/Finland

I've used the 250gn Woodleigh in a 318WR
which is effectively the same bullet.

Great penetration on all game used it on - incl big game up to 1000kg's.

Heard the same from those who have used
the 240gn .308 on the same game.

Tend to agree with Phil though that twist rate
is an issue with SOME 30.06's.


Advantage IMHO would be penetration.
They hit hard from what I have seen.

A great enough advantage over a 180gn
on Elk and Bear ? Haven't shot them
but would assume a 180gn in the right
vitals would kill both.

In my experience Woodleigh Softs perform best at impact velocities under 2400fps.

I killed one black bear with a 308 using the Federal factory 180gr, I have killed a LOT of different game, including my largest cape buff with the 9,3 286gr, I have killed several animals with 400gr .408 bullets, including cape buff, bear, and lion, and I have killed several cape buff with 480 gr Woodleigh's out of my 450 No2., as well as wildbest, eland and wild pig.

ALL of the Woodleigh's performed perfectly.
The ones that I recovered, had penetrated and mushroomed perfect, perfect in every way.

As far as relevant experience goes, I have some history on game with the Barnes TSX bullets and would recommend them over any other.

Its generally not a question to expect good penetration, accuracy and expansion.

Were I to be searching for a 30 cal load it'd be with a TSX.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Its generally not a question to expect good penetration, accuracy and expansion.

Scott

So you are saying you can't have all 3 at once ?

I have had all 3 with 318WR, 9.3's 286's and 320's and a few others if I put my mind to it.

No.

As usual, I seem to assemble words poorly.

I expect or assume good to excellent penetration, accuracy and expansion from Barnes TSX. I do not hold the same faith in other bullets.

I'd feel comfortable using a 180g Barnes TSX in my 30-06 on all Alaskan big game.

No problems.

I think everyone has had good experiences
with a bullet they use regularly and stick with them.

It seems you do and I certainly do with Woodleigh's.

I have shot quite a few large critters with Woodleighs using everything from a 30-06 to a 505 and maybe Alaskan game is tougher but in my experience Woodleighs don't penetrate anywhere near as deeply as TSX, Partitions, or Interbonds.
It the impact velocities are low enough they hold their weight OK, they are bonded, but they expand so wide that it limits their penetration.
If that is the performance you want, they are a reliable bullet.

Interesting.

Used quite a few in my 505 Gibbs. Did the original testing on the 600gn PP's as I was
the only person who had a 505 at the time.

I tend to use heavy for calibre bullet weights
so the extra weight tends to maybe overcome
the expansion limiting penetration as you say.

Anyway, all good.

FWIW, I remember reading a comparison made a number of years ago between the various 220 gr .308 bullets on the market (Hornady, Sierra) and the 200 gr Nosler partition. As I recall, the comparison was exceedingly kind to the Nosler. I don't remember the exact details, but they may have even compared the 220 Nosler to the 200. I think there was also a comparison with the older Barnes original 250 grain bullet. In any event, my takeaway was that the 200 Nosler was the clear winner in every category, except point blank, where the 220 Nosler ruled.

Times have obviously changed, and I couldn't directly equate the 240 Woodleigh with the 250 Barnes original without testing, but I think the general argument, that the conventional 220/250 bullets were too soft for maximal penetration, is still valid.

At the end of the day, most Sierra, Hornady .308 220 grain bullets are probably shot at deer, out of 30/06 rifles, by hunters who want "brush busting" ability, even though brush busting ability has pretty thoroughly debunked by a number of tests. If Hornady, Sierra made the bullets tougher, it would most likely reduce performance on deer, so ...

Here is a photo of bullets from a test medium of alternating wet and dry stacks of magazines. The Woodleigh looks pretty wicked with all the numerous petals sticking out but when I shot them into bears all the petals had broken off and left a pretty small ball of lead and jacket. The Noslers and Barnes usually look the same in test media as well as from game

A guy on the NitroExpress Forum did a lot of penetrating with 375 caliber expanding bullets. The 350g Woodleigh outperformed the 300g A-Frame and 300g Barnes TSX with regard to both penetration and expansion though both the Barnes and A-Frame did very well. He only drove them to 2150 fps though. I think 2350 fps is reasonable max for the Woodleigh heavy for caliber bullets.

Used Barnes (original) 250 gr factory ammo in a 300 Win back in the day (IIRC the early to mid-80's). They worked okay.

When I started handloading, I went to 200 and 220 grain - mostly Nosler Partitions.

I'll be trying the 168 gr Barnes TTSX in my new M-70 .30-06 this year.


Lars in Alaska (from DK originally)

Let's up this thread a bit....

Any new experiences in the field with the 240gr Woodleigh bullet?

Still curious.

- Lars/Finland

Not 240s, but just for kicks I moved up from 200 NPs to 220 hornady round nose. Lost just under 200 fps as well as penetration on boar under 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
A guy on the NitroExpress Forum did a lot of penetrating with 375 caliber expanding bullets.
The 350g Woodleigh outperformed the 300g A-Frame and 300g Barnes TSX with regard to both penetration and expansion though both the Barnes and A-Frame did very well.
He only drove them to 2150 fps though. I think 2350 fps is reasonable max for the Woodleigh heavy for caliber bullets.

yet with 9,3 bullets tested in elephant, the 300 A-Frame out penetrated the 320 woodleighPP.

The tread is about 240s .308 caliber bullets I see no correlation between bullets of different calibers by the same maker.

Besides the fact that they are made by the same company.

I have not use the 240s

I have used 220s and they have killed every thing I shot with them.

I tried the 240 Woodlieghs on a buffalo and although it killed the buff, It performed no better than the 200 gr. Nosler IMO, penetrated less although it expanded to a greater degree, but I felt the extra penetration of the 200 gr. Nosler partition was of more benefit...Felt the same on Kudu, eland and Pg in general...

I actually liked the 200 gr. Woodleigh about as well as the Nosler, such that school is still out over my favorite of the two, both are awesome.

It was my attempt at making the 06 into a 318 WR, I suppose it did that, but then I am one of the few that isn't particularly impressed with the .318 WR, much prefer the 9.3x62. Just my personal opinnion.

I am contenplating a 300 Win with a 1 in 9 Carbon barrel. I had no intention of using 240 grain round nose bullets, but I will perform a test to see if accuracy still falls apart.

The Navy has done a lot of testing at Crane NWC to see if they can beat the 338 Lapua with the 300 Winchester in certain bullets. A 230 Grain Berger gave them what they wanted.

Goal was to give SEAL snipers more ammo for weight, without losing performance.

Holy smokes, but it SHOVES!
Shot 4 test loads more than 4 hours ago - knocked the air out of me and I stil feel it.
Have to test the accuracy and try them just on general principle.

- Lars/Finland

Yes sir, I got the impression the 240 Woodleighs had more recoil than the the 200 or 180s..I also recoil telling myself not to buy anymore of them because of that..I would rather shoot my .338 with good Woodleigh bullets or 210 Noslers. I felt the same about the 300 gr. .338 bullet, its a great bullet, but if I need that much lead, I would much prefer the 375 with 350 gr. Woodleighs, now that's a bullet and almost as good as the 450 gr. 416 Woodleigh...

Guess I'm making a point in that the extra weight of bullet seems to count more on the bigger bore DG calibers than it does in the 06 and .338..At least that's my take on the subject.

Today was range day...
The wind was from the right, some gusts. Also the light was from the right and the sun really shone in my eyes during the first shots!
Some interesting results.
I tried 5 loads, 4 shots each + benchmark shots with the usual 180gr AccuBond for reference.
I had previously fired 4 rounds to ensure they work OK so all in all I fired 16 shots.
I haven't chronoed the loads, but the manual suggests 2126 to 2313 fps.
All shots @ 100 metres, i.e. 110 yds. I shoot a Tikka T3 Stainless Lite rifle.

Herewith some photos!

The first four - the stoutest load (compressed load).



The size of the group (sorry about the poor measuring tape work..... Only was me and 2 hands, you see!)
Approx. 3,5cm which reads approx. 1 3/8"



All 16 shots



Group size. Tha.t reads 5,5cm which translates to approx. 2 1/8" - 2 1/4"



With some more time and focus it would probably be a lot better.
I shot 4, went to the target and the 4 more. I hot a LOT of heat mirage in the scope so shooting became fairly difficult.
However, if 5 different loads shoot this well without too much effort, I suppose it's safe to say it won't do any worse.
In other words any of these loads and for sure these heavies can comfortably be fired in my rifle.

With the heat mirage shooting a benchmark group with the 180grs bullets was very difficult, but based on the result it appears the 240grs bullets hit approx. 6 cm (approx. 2 3/8") lower than the 180grs ones @ the tried out 100 metres (110 yds).

- Lars/Finland

Lars, I am going to buy you a new target for your birthday.

Thanks! It's 29 October. Pm me for my address

- Lars/Finland

I need to restate my post as on a re read I sorta misstated it..

I like the Woodleigh 180 gr. or 200 gr. as well as I like the 180 and 200 gr. Nosler on DEER AND EVEN ELK equally well..

On DG, Leopard being the exception, I would opt for the Nosler every time, as IMO penetration is first in every case whereas on thin skinned PG or deer and elk the Woodleigh is an awesome killer with big copper wings that are a virtual buzz saw and the damage is impressive, blood trails are really good, and they kill quickly as a rule, and penetration is sufficient..

Had trouble getting good groups also, they are quite soft, i feel better off using a good designed 180 gr pill in the 3006, match made in heaven, i like the speer grandslams or nosler partitions they work well on our sambar deer, no need for heavier pills in the 06, just dont push them fast enough to out benefit a good 180 gr.

I made some in 30-06 for my buddy. They put big holes in big pigs. thus the name we gave them "Ye Olde Hog Buster"

I view them as too much of a good thing, heavy for caliber undeniably works but I don't see why one wouldn't shoot a 9.3x62 instead of 250gr .30-06. You're losing a fair bit of efficiency by using the .30 as well, less base to push against for the pressure.

Personally think the .30-06 will offer better results, and no question trajectory, with a partition or a-frame around 200grs.