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Grizzly kills couple in Alaska Monday, June 27, 2005; Posted: 3:02 a.m. EDT (07:02 GMT) ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) -- Two people camping along the Hulahula River in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge were killed by a grizzly bear, officials said. Officials discovered the bodies and an unused firearm in a tent Saturday at a campsite near the river. They also shot and killed the animal. The couple, whose names were not released, was believed to be in their late 50s or early 60s, North Slope Borough police said on Sunday. They were from Anchorage and had been on a recreational rafting trip down the river, Alaska State Troopers said. The victims were in their tent when the attack occurred, according to Tim DeSpain, spokesman for Alaska State Troopers. The campsite was clean, with food stored in bear-proof containers. "The initial scene indicates that it was a predatory act by the bear," DeSpain said. A rafter had seen the animal at the site and notified authorities. The couple's injuries were consistent with a bear attack and there were no signs of foul play, said Kelly Alzaharna, a lieutenant with the North Slope Borough Police Department. There were no other people at the campsite, which was about 12 miles up river from Kaktovik, a community of about 300 on Barter Island and the only village in the refuge. Officials are not sure when the couple was killed. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/27/bear.attack.ap/index.html | ||
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I was wondering if there is anymore to this story on any Alaskan newspapers? Lawdog  | |||
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Scary stuff. Even if you have enough gun, there's no garantee you'll be able to use it. Angering society one University student at a time. | |||
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Here's what the ADN had. A few more details, but not much more. http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/6652474p-6539228c.html | |||
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From the Fairbanks Daily News Miner: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AK_BEAR_ATTACK_A...E=AKFAI&SECTION=HOME | |||
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Real lesson there, you are pretty vulnerable in a tent. No room to use a firearm, the bear can get right on top of you so easy, and you are trapped. One has to get it straight about how quiet these big animals are when they want to be. Even deer don't always hear them, until it's too late. If you don't have a warning system, you don't have a chance. Ever read the old accounts of Indian Camps, they traveled with lots of mean dogs. | |||
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From the Fairbanks paper: "The refuge is home to grizzly, polar and black bears." Bears and bears and bears, oh my! I saw a video of a brown bear chasing and catching a young elk. I will never forget it. | |||
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All the times I have woken up in the middle of the night, in my tent on the tundra, and heard animals just out side walking around... I imagine the sale of portable electrict boundary shockers will go up, at least for a while. There is daylight 24-7 that far north right now. It is unfortunate for this couple though. Robert Jobson | |||
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walex depending on the firearm handguns are easy to use in a tent.(I have fired many shots in paractice laying on my back ect.) I will be interisting to find out how much out door experaince this couple had and what type of firearm. This is why when I camp in griz country I sleep with my handgun with a lanyard to my wrist. Being dragged out of your tent and leaving your gun behind could be a real problem. A rifle or a shot gun inside a tent would be hard to use. I wonder if the chamber was empty or loaded. Trying to load a long gun when a bear is chewing on oneself could be real trouble. Another question comes to mind were they both trained in the use of their firearm or was just one. Gets to be useless if the one train in the use gets the bite frist. That all said it would still would be tough to be attack in a tent. | |||
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While the handgun is better than nothing, I still wouldn't bet my life on it. I take my chances with a rifle or shotgun. Odds are you'll never need to worry about it, and these cases are rare when you consider how many people sleep in tents in bear country. Still, it's very unfortunate when things like this happen. People must understand were not at the top of the food chain. Be aware, put up alarms, and keep the gun handy. Angering society one University student at a time. | |||
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Yes, I'm sure you,d be 100% safe with a super hand cannon and you can stake your very life on your lightening fast OK Corral cross-over quick-draw, sound asleep and pinned down and smothered and tangled up under the fabric, by a 3-600 pound meateater capable of literally ripping you to shreds, and sinking 2" fangs through your brains in less time than it would take you squeeze off a shot in the dark even if you slept with your finger on the trigger. My God People, get real, there is plenty of film footage of what this particular species of animal is capable of, like the the footage of the grizzly taking down an elk. I'd suggest taking a real good hard look at some of this footage, look at some of the shots of people who have been mauled, see how fast things are happening and then realistically assess how you would fare being caught sound asleep with your hand gun. Try an experiment, hire a 350 pound trained wrestler, go to sleep in your tent and have him jump on you. see how well you do getting your unloadedof course pistol into action and how effective you would be. Instruct him to jump stomp and throw full power round house heel of the hand smashes any where he could land them. make it realistic. Then think about what you are advising with your talk about handguns in a colapsed tent caught sound asleep with all the fury one of those bears can unleash already on you. Chances are those people were dead before they could get their eyes open. wayne | |||
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Apparently more than most. http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/6656053p-6542899c.html | |||
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According to the reports the firearm was unfired. So far I haven't been able to find out what type of firearm it was as it would be interesting to know if they had ever had a chance to even grab it? Lawdog  | |||
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Lawdog_Gary That's the problem with these bears, if you are caught in a tent sleeping, all the training and weaponry and outdoor experience is not going to do you much good. The bear is on you and already well on it's way to making you dead and ready to eat, in the few seconds it would take to wake up and realize what was happening. Remember, the camp was clean, food stored so as not to be bear attracting, so the couple knew about bears, but not enough. So the bear was not after garbage or campfood, it purposely killed the people for food. If you've lived in SE Alaska and know any deer hunters who use a deer call, you probably know some one who can tell how quietly a brownie can sneak up you. I know more than one guy who's been sitting back to a stump or tree, and who's first noticed the presence of a bear by smelling the nasty breath it's breathing on his neck. You never hear a twig snap or a dead leaf rustle. All you gotta know in bear country first of all is what they do for a living. Wayne | |||
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PS Even if the couple has an adequate weapon and were able to bring it into play, remember that just shooting the thing isn't good enough. You have to make a shot that is instantly fatal. Brain or spine. Try to imagine doing that in the dark inside of a tent that is most likely collapsed all over you. and the bear isn't going to hold still for you either. He'll be all over you, throwing dynamite punches with both fists studded with 2-3 inch knives and ear-biting like Iron mike Tyson, with a much better set of teeth. Wayne | |||
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You sure do cloud the situation with pink fluffy bunnies. Why not give it a little more darkness?  Angering society one University student at a time. | |||
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I think I'll never sleep while in the wilderness again. I'll be awake all night from now on going "What was that?" Angering society one University student at a time. | |||
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I had a grizzley in the Alaska range stick his head over me while I was in the tent.I rolled out of the tent and fired into the ground.I couldnt see the bear till I had the flash light towards the beart.I had a fire going and they stayed away till it went out due to rain.I was put in an area where the guy who flew me over.There were bear rubs on every tree almost.I sytayed awake 10 nights.The bears never came out except at night.I saw 7 bears the last night I was there.I had to flag down a plane because the wonderful guy who had taken me across the river would not come pick me back up.I had the guy that landed radio in a plane.The year before a guy in the same place got chased across the river by a mother and two almost full grown cubs.The guy who picked him up said he must have walked on water because you just dont cross the little delta river.I got into a sow and two almost full grown cubs at dark with two friends last year.We had to make a new trail away from the bears straight down the mountain.There was a moose gut pile that they came to eat on by the trail we came up.I think as more people go into the wilderness the more the bears will be ready to give them troubles.Its hard for grizzleys to stay out of trouble around people. | |||
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hey pharaoh, where do you find pink fuzzy bunnies, you been eatin some of that madcow alberta beef? you know my friend all the Liberal talk is cute, but a guy could end up like the guy in the old joke who was gay bashing and got bashed himself by the toughest gay on the planet. Couple of Liberals here you could try to put your words into action, ! Lotsa Luck Wayne | |||
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Well walex I guess I just do not have the attuide that nothing can be done. The more and more you study bear attacks the more you see that being armed and fighting back is better then not. You can bend over and kiss your ass good by and think bears are super powered if you want. Myself well belive in a good firearm and training anyday. Being defeated before you start is a good way to lose. We well never know the whole truth behind the attack so I guess we are all just guessing what happened. | |||
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We well never know the whole truth behind the attack so I guess we are all just guessing what happened.[/QUOTE] I guess not. The folks that can give us the whole truth are bear turds. | |||
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walex, We have hunted/camped Alaska many times. We go up there every year to visit the in-laws and get in some great hunting/fishing(and have for just over 30 years). We always run an alarm system around camp just so we get advance notice of intruders. Add to that a dog or two and no bear gets to the tents without waking the whole camp. You don’t have to live in Alaska or Canada to have bears answer to a call. More than a few times I have had Black Bears, Mountain Lions sneak in the “back door†while calling Coyotes and such. You wouldn’t believe just how small a .22 Hornet gets when you turn around and find a large carnivore coming in at 10 yards or less. Tends to make your underwear smell funny. Lawdog | |||
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I would carry a hangun at all times if i were there in a campsite. *We Band of .338 ers*.NRA Member | |||
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P dog shooter, What is so difficult to grasp about the fact that your pistol and all the training in the world won't make a damn bit of difference if you are dead before you wake up? And if you think a brownie ain't a little bit superpowered compared to a puny human, then I guess you would have to learn for yourself. I don't see how any man who could make a statement like that could be trained for much of anything, much less the dymamics of an all out bear attack. No one has to be there, just reconstruct the scene later from the evidence, and tracks. They were in their sleeping bags and in their tent and they didn't get to use their firearm. They were killed, and there is no mention of a struggle. What more does one need to know. Being in a sleeping bag is not a good defensive position from which to put up a fight. Use blankets. Read lawddog gary's post about how to set up a camp. dgr416 stayed alive for 10 nights, so he done something right, read his post real careful if you doubt that camping in bear country is something to be taken lightly. I have lived and hunted in the heart of brown bear country for almost 60 years and have kissed my ass goodby yet, or been defeated before I start. Quite the opposite, I've observed that the one who gets in trouble is the fool who lets his alligator mouth overload his tadpole tail and judgement, and gets to thinking that his firearm and training will get him out of any situation. And those fools only survive if they get lucky. Wayne | |||
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I think I missed a key or two there and meant that I HAVEN"T kissed the old tailfeathers goodbye. There' one thing that bothers me about all the bear experts advice about bear attractants, and garbage and food in camp and in town they don't want bird feeders and dogfood left out etc. All that is just fine, but it gives a lot of people a false sense of sercurity in bear country. Many people can't seem to grasp that man himself is a pretty big chunk of food, and can appear to a bear to be a fair game source of protein. And all the people in town here secure their garbage and bird seed feeders and dog food and then start the day frying bacon and finish it by frying steaks with the range hood sucking up all those good cooking smells all over the countryside and then wonder why the bears keep coming. I go down to the fish and game dept just down the street and get the stupidest looks totally dumfounded, by talking like that. Like it's a quantum leap from standard bear expert dogma. So not wanting to be burned at the stake for being a heretic, I don't push it, just go over and ruin some bureaucrats day once in a while. I think it's really tragic, Alaska lost about a fine of a couple of people as we have here, they secured their food, waste and garbage, cooked in a different place from where they camped. They had a gun. Then thinking they were safe and sound because they did all these things the experts say to do, they zipped up the bags inside their tent and went to sleep, never considering that maybe a bear would kill them for food, or maybe, as predators sometimes do, just for the hell of it. Or just because they can. Maybe just because it was a little bear that had just got whipped by a big bear and was pissed at the whole world and took it out on what ever he could. and that's the nature of the beasts. Hell we should know. Our own human nature is just nature, that's all. Animals throwing temper fits can be pretty impressive at times. Especially bears. Just comes natural. Wayne | |||
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Wayne: I do agree with you most times and I especially agree with what you are saying here. Bears are preditors and they don't read the books that all the experts write. Folks that do spend a lot of time in bear country usually have some mixture of confidence and fear (I do). But you just don't know. It is always disturbing. And folks that talk about having the .357/44mags and loaded rifles in the tent do not think about the fact that even a small bear is much bigger than a human and much strong and faster and they hit and bit people in the head, and either change them for ever or kill them right there. With or with out a gun. There is no second guessing the situation...if the bear wants to hurt or kill someone, it probably will. Robert Jobson | |||
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Rwj, Thanks, I see today in the news they can't figure out why Roy Horn's tiger mauled him, my God, I would think that any one with brains enough to pour the sand out of their shoes would know that is what tigers do. That's been a fairly elemental truth for a few million years or so, give or take a few months. They kill little hairy primates, and big not so hairy primates, and anything else that is made of flesh and blood. We humans kill for food to eat. We also kill for sport, for the fun of it, no matter how much we rationalize. Natural. That's what we are what we have been, our instinct. i remember watching little Eskimo toddlers stalking shore birds at Point Barrow many years ago. Ingrained instinct. All part of natures design. Wayne | |||
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Folks. Maybe the most silly comment ever made. However, 'working' in South America I used to use a sleeping system consisting of Hammock/Rain Tarp/Bug net. I slept like a log, dry and snake/bug free. I understand the larger bears are not climbers. Is using a suspended sleep system an option in big bear country? Rgds Ian Just taking my rifle for a walk!........ | |||
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In some bear county one could use a suspend system. Where these folks were I dought there was a tree big enough. rwj I don't know where you belive a small bear is much bigger then human. A hundred pound bear even a 300 lb bear there are lots of humans that size. This bear was 300 lbs could be easly killed by most handguns. Bears are not super powered a well place bullet works. If bears were super power we would not have killed them off in most places and they wouldn't need protection to make sure they survive. If a human wants to hurt or kill a bear they most likely well, we do it all the time with a lot more sucess then bears do to humans. We are the top hunter. Bears and people of been killing each other off for ever we win most of the time. Go armed be prepared and don't give up. Sure shit happens but to have this defeatist mind set gets one no where. | |||
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Nope Walex, must have been one of your Texas cows. Are you saying your a proud, anti-gun, anti-family Liberal? What does my signature have to do with a discussion about bears? Angering society one University student at a time. | |||
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P.dog, I won't argue with your positive thinking, but the fact is a weaker rifle cartridge is still more powerful than most handgun cartridges. A short little 30-30, still not quite as easy to manipulate in close quarters will have more power than a standard 357-44 mag. The problem isn't power, though. Once a bears adrenaline is pumping, unless you take out the brain/spine, you have a problem. If we go by what walex is saying about being dead before you wake up, than I guess we really don't have to worry about it, do we? Angering society one University student at a time. | |||
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Can we have a little more respect for the dead around here? You are going to be joining them one day. "rwj I don't know where you belive a small bear is much bigger then human. A hundred pound bear even a 300 lb bear there are lots of humans that size." P dog I feel a person should do all you can to survive. On that note a 100lbs bear can take on any man and I mean any man no matter how big he is. They use there muscle's everyday they know what it takes to survive. Then add Adrenaline to the factor and you are in for a real fight. Humans with out a weapon are not on top of the food chain sometimes even with a weapon we are not on top. I would take a handgun over a rifle in a tent. I think at that point you do all you can but either way some one bigger than us all already knows the out come before you or the bear. If I was without a weapon and was getting mauled I would go for the eyes. I know that the odds are not very good when you have a 400lbs+ ball of hate and rage on top of you but if you were able to get your finger or thumb in its eye it would get off of you. They say a Predator will not take the chance on losing an eye. A lady that was being attack by a Great white Shark took here finger and dug it into its eye socket and it let go and left the area. This is a Theory Biologists have about a Predator not wanting to lose and eye. I hope to hell I never have to rely on it!!! | |||
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I bought my 416 rem mag after the bears tried to get me.I trust my 338 wm but in the tent when the bear is on top of you no gun is too big.I also had alot more bear adventures that across the river in the Alaska Range.Pinnel and Tafferson the most famous Kodiak bears gave up after one year in the Alaska Range.The bears are very agressive over there.I also had a bear try to get into my bronco one night that I was sleeping in it.I guess I was parked in its trail.He stepped on my trailer every 3rd night.The last night I was there he pushed on the trailer tongue hard enough to bring the wheels off the ground about 3 inches.The same bear was flipping metal dumpsters and taking off car doors to get snacks around Delta Junction.I have seen 98 grizzleys and only 8 black bears in 7 years there.The grizzleys eat the black bears on a regular basis there.I watch a big blonde grizzley chase a moose you will never out run one.I listened to Elmer Keith and always carry enough gun.I use my 416 rem mag with a 22" barrel in the thicket and either my 338wm or my 338-378 Weatherby with 250 gr bullets in the open tundra.There was a guy on the Kenai about 5 years ago that shot a bear twice with a 280 remington it pulled his head off when it killed him.Grizzleys are nothing to play with.I lok for bears in Alaska the way I use to look for snakes down south.Thank goodness they dont have snakes in alaska too its too thick to see your feet in alot of places.I am always alert if I find a fresh b ear kill or a gut pile.The two guys I was with last year lost their heads almost when we encountered the three grizzleys last year at dark.Always watch for bears in alaska and always keep your big gun fully loaded.I aint spraying no bear spray just lots of big lead bullets. | |||
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dgr416 You are sure wasting a lot of energy packing all that heavy artillery around, when all you really have to do is some positive thinking, and just get up in the middle of the night and go out and poke your finger in the bears eye if he is messing around with your trailer hitch. no I ain't no flamin f-g liberal, but I have seen a few of them folks that Pharoh and p-dog would be better off antagonizing an 800 pound bear than to go mouthing off to. And there are no trees to climb where these folks were camping, besides many people have discovered that even fairly large bears can climp better than you might think. Obviosly some people are never going to change their mind about being safe in bear country, sleeping safe and sound in their tent zipped up in sleeping bags, with a big hand-cannon in their hand. Well, sometimes the good Lord looks after fools, sometimes he don't. One more thing, bears may not be the only worry in some of that country. Go back 20 or so years and read about the couple who were sleeping zipped up in their bags, just a ways from Pt Barrow. A young fellow that wasn't quite right upstairs came along hunting ducks and shot the sleeping pair in their bags from a few feet away, and then sexually violated the womans corpse. Sovik or something like that was the young fellows name, if I remember right. things like that can happen sleeping safe and sound at any rest stop on the good old USA too. Maybe I'm just too negative and defeatist, but I don't sleep well, very long, or very sound at those places either. Wayne | |||
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Walex outside a tent I would take a rifle infact when I go next year I will have both in the tent. But in a small tent with a bear on top of you, you are not going to get that rifle so you can shoot it. I do not care how good you think you are with it. I only need one hand to fire my pistol and I know for a fact that a pistol shoved in the bears mouth or chest then fired is going to give me a better chance then a rifle laying next to me with only one hand free. This spring a guy walking his dog up there shot and killed a Grizz charging him with a 44 mag. Now everyone says on here a handgun is not enough but lots of people have used them and lived to tell about it. Like I said I will have a rifle and a pistol in the tent and a motion detector outside. That being said I probably have a better chance of getting killed traveling up there then having a bear attack me in my tent. | |||
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Most people who have never been around bears don't have a clue how fast and powerful they really are. In the theme of this thread if a person is asleep in there tent in a sleeping bag and a bear attacks for whatever reason you are pretty much toast no matter what firearm you have with you. Even if you had the biggest hand cannon taped to your hand you most likely would not even get a shot off let alone get a shot at the bear. If you don't believe that do what someone else already said, get in a sleeping bag with your handgun and zip the bag up, now have some one about 200 lbs lay across your chest. Now try and get your arm and handgun out of the bag..... It is not very easy to do that. If you add more weight (bigger bear), biting, clawing, and punching to the mix and the result is you are pretty much toast. IMHO there is really only two factors that can help the situation. 1. the bear decides you taste like SHIT and leaves or 2. you have someone else in another tent come and help. I think Walex said it best. You take what precautions you and hope for the best. | |||
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Well, as a final note for the day, I know that if a bear comes after me I'll take pleasure in knowing I'll take him with me. That bastard will die of high cholesteral after he eats me! Angering society one University student at a time. | |||
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We can all be prepared with whatever we shoot best and feel secure with......the question is are you mentally prepared to carry out the training plan. Unfortunately, you won't know until it happens. The plan is good to have but the planets will all have to be in perfect allignment for you to pull it off, especially in a sleeping bag and small tent. Last year, I slept in my 2man Marmot tent while a grizzly dug out the campfire ring 25 feet away......I now have a larger tent that could give me a bit more of a chance.....never heard the bear. One other thing, bears have an incredible sense of smell......dealing in molecules of scent, discriminating many different scents at one time.....if you take food out of your "bear-proof" container and touch the sides after handling the food the bear can smell it.....the container will only keep him from eating it. Practice good bear habits, be alert, don't camp on trails, and carry whatever makes you feel secure. Sticking your fingers in their eyes????? That's a hoot, but whatever makes you feel good, eh? Mess with bears long enough and you'll see first hand why their strength, stamina, ferocity, and speed are legendary......with good reason. My sympathies go out to the families of these unfortunate folks. At least they passed doing what they loved in God's country. Joe Where there's a hobble, there's hope. | |||
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__________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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I have watched bears move rocks and logs that would make a man cry. They do with what seems to be a small amount of effort. They move through the woods with ease and at speeds that seem impossible. They can be big and very powerful they can out weigh a man many times to one. But I also know that a well place bullet will end their life in seconds or break them down and drop them on the spot. I have done it and seen it done. Most bear maulings are not fatal but they sure can mess a person up fast. Most bear shooting are fatal to the bear a good shot well end a bears life quickly. What is more deadly a bear or a man with a good weapon. That is easy that is why there are more of us then there are bears. I have done lots of camping in bear county out west Canda and AK. I haven't had bear trouble in camp. But that doesn't mean I stop being prepared. I have stood down bears standing with in 20 to 30 yards poping their teeth while the cubs ran up near by trees. I know while standing there with fire arm in my hands and ready the bear was going to die. I haven't spent thousand so hrs and 10 of thousands of rounds of ammo down range not to be sure of my skills. Sure shit can happen and all the stuff you prepared for can down down the tubes. But I can tell the odds are in my favor. More times or not the bear is going to lose. And they do lose many more times then not. That is why we kill thousands of them a year and that they kill so few of us each year. | |||
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