Its my 7th year in Ak but the longer I hunt here the more I wonder about F&G 4 brow tine 50" rule where I hunt.There is no one who guides on the road system where I hunt.I saw 85 moose in 5 days this year and 155 moose in 13 days last year.The problem is its almost impossible to find a 4 brow tine moose where I hunt.I did see one last year about 32" wide.I think when you kill the biggest moose that the small racked bulls breed and the rack size actually goes down with the 4 brow tine rule.I think it would be lots better if it was 3 brow tines and no shooting of spike forked moose.I see about 40% of the bulls with 3 brow tine moose.You hardly see any bulls over 50".The other side is if a bull moose does make it to 4 brow tines he is tough as leather usually.It gets old saving the moose for the bears,cars,tourist buses and russian poachers and not hunters.The bears are really taking most of the calves I hardly see any probally less than 5%of the moose I see are calves.There are plenty of moose where I hunt but hardly any leagal ones.It really pisses me off when russians catch them in their snairs and F&G does nothing to them.In one week a russian trapper caught 20 moose in his snares.F&G did nothing to this russian who let them go to waste.If you shoot a moose that is 49 3/4" they will nail sportsmen to the wall.The give you a nice fine ,take your hunting rights and maybe your rifle.It makes no difference if you turn yourself in or not they still give you a ticket and take your moose.I use to have moose in my neighborhood all the time.The russians took care of that.They shoot moose all year long.I tried to turn them in for shooting a grizzley out of season.The F&G told me the game warden was off that day and wouldnt make it out there that week.I had a friend of mine 78 years old have a russian shoot a cow and a calf moose in his driveway in the middle of summer and threatened to kill him if he told.The fined the russian $250.The later dropped that because he said he couldnt pay.The F&G is not for sportmen who spend tons of money and pay the F&G saleries.They cater to tourist companies who want to see more moose on the road but no hunters.They also turn their heads to russian poachers but nail sportsmen to the wall for small mistakes.I just dont see anything good happening in the near future either.There is less and less areas that you can acess on the road system.There will be a day when it will be a big park and fly in hunting away from the road system.I dont road hunt but do go where I am hunting by the road .Has anyone else had this same thoughts about moose hunting and fish and game?

I take it that it makes for minimal work on F&G's part, yet in the end a poor means of managing the herd and hard to practically implement.

Then again, if the entire state went to a lottery system for every moose area, there would be a hugh and cry and huge push to turn most of the areas into tier II subsistance, which would make an even bigger mess.

You might go into F&G and talk to your Area Biologist about your concerns with the state of the moose herd and poaching problems in your hunting area, maybe head to F&G's public meetings as well-it all helps. As far as the SF/50" regulation, in your area it might not be the greatest, but overall I like it. In the units I hunt we've seen improvements in not only #'s of bulls but also in the age structure. I know in some areas on the road system hunters have to scout out their bulls before the season & try to pop'em on opening day, seems like most of the legal bulls get killed but at least there are a few tweener bulls left for seed. It's getting harder every year to get moose meat in the freezer and with our rising population I don't think its gonna get any easier anytime soon, F&G will have to make some changes in their mngmt scheme, lets hope they make the right ones.

Keep giving those poachers hell though, maybe they'll bust the next one-Ron

I talked to the head biologist of the unit I hunt.The problem is that they play on the computer too much and dont go into the field like they use to.He said that they modeled their program after whitetail deer programs.This was why they allowed so many cow and calf permits in unit.There is a problem that moose and deer are totally different.The moose migrate big time over hundreds of miles sometimes.I love seeing lots of moose but saving them for the bears,cars ,poachers and tourist buses to see is BS.It took forever for F&G to do anything about the bears and wolves but there is alot more to do with them.The locals usually do notgo bear hunting for a rug or meat.If was finally that they allowed baiting for grizzleys near Tok.The decrease in trapping has let the wolves go wild in reproducing.The moose population is high where I hunt but the antler quality is way below what it should be.The 4 brow tined moose usually have 4 little finger brow tines that are hardly over an inch long.I have seen some shot as little as 30 inches wide.If less pressure was taken off of the biggest moose then they might be able to breed.I see tons of screwed up looking racked moose breeding that not going to make 50 inches or 4 brow tines.The genetics of the moose are not what they should be.The fly in area was any moose forever untill three years ago.There were lots of 60 to 70 inch moose.The guys that hunt over there said that the biggest bulls are gettin all the pressure and the littler bulls are getting to breed not the big ones.The sike fork moose usually got passed for decient sized moose but now with the rule change they wack everyone they see.If the biggest bulls dont breed then those hudge racks dont reproduce.The F&G having such large cow and calf hunts along with the poachers on the other side ofd the river does not help.The moose are smart enough to go to areas that are not hunted by legal hunters but thats where the poachers do almost all their hunting.I have about given up truning in russian poachers.If its not moose season F&G does not care about how many moose are snared,shot or wacked by cars.There is a large area that only 10 hunters can hunt legally.It should be packed with moose and was before the russians came .It now harder to see a moose in that area than outside that area.The russians are scared of messing with the army and wont hunt on army land usually.The did poach a herd of caribou that stayed beside the road.They caught them but let them go because the couldnt speak english.The federal game warden got in trouble for arresting the russians poaching caribou in his area.It seems less and less that F&G is for hunters up here.I have gone to F&G meeting its a joke.The listen to the natives and give them anyseason the want.If a hunter says something and its not on a biologists computer or in a book he studied its not listened to.The biologist is agreeing with closing large areas of hunting and closing off acess to hunters but turns his head to poachers.There was a road built 60 miles to a mine that look like a hwy.It was built on state land with state money.The biologist made sure that hunters could not use the road for hunting.The workers at the mine are allowed to use the road for hunting whats the deal with this?The only problem with hunters is that all the anchorage and fairbanks hunters have to ccome to the area where I live and hunt because they cant hunt where they live.There is also the problem that the army always seem to train right when moose season is in.They go all year without training but wait to close their land only during moose season.Then they fenced in a big area with a 25 mile long fence and now want to kill every moose inside of the fence.The wacked a bunch of buffalo that gave them fence problems and left them to rot.It just seems like legal hunters are the last on the list to get moose any more.

I may be able to answer one of your original questions.
I'm not a Game Bioliogist, but I did set on the Kenai/Soldotna Fish & Game Advisory Committee for several years.
The spike/fork, 3 brow tine, 50" or bigger regulation, was started by the AK. Fish & Game Dept.in Soldotna. The first area was Unit 15 on the Kenai Peninsula.
The "for the public " theory was, spike/fork bulls are inferior bulls and will never breed cows.
The older, "3 brow tine, 50" or bigger" bulls were past their prime and did not breed.
The "middle sized" bulls do the breeding so need to be protected.
The "not for the public" portion came from the Federal Fish and Wildlife Service, who run the Kenai Moose Range. They wanted more large bulls for the tourist to view.
Their theory may be correct, but I'm not convinced yet.

hey 416...

you want some cheese to go with that whine?

geeez!

The wonderful army is planning to shoot all the moose inside of their 25 mile long fence.There have been cow hunts for up to 600 cows and calfs in unit 20a.You add up a 85% loss of calfs to wolves and bears and it adds up quick.The fish and game tries to manage moose from the computer not the field.If the only areas that the moose are plentiful are wiped out there are no more moose.If you go to unit 13 you hardly see any moose but they have a longer season than us.It wont take long to wipe them out.The Delta buffalo herd is down to 400 this year.I found 10 that the army had shot because of their fence.

Help me understand the "Russian" comments. Are these illegals or residents? I always hear of the issues with Natives, never Russian poachers.

The russians are from washington area.They sent them up here to get them off of welfare down there.they are residents of Alaska after one year but they are not citizens of the united states.If they become a us citizen then they have to pay taxes and dont get all the goodies the govt gives them.The only russians I have met that are us citizens are the ones under 25 that are born here.The ones 30 and over hate the United States govt and wont become citizens.They have shot evey moose that comes around them.Russian moose season is all year long except the two weeks regular hunters get to hunt.They found one russian last winter that had snared the 20 something moose in his snares and did nothing to him.There have been about 2500 of them move into the area I live in.You use to see 20 moose or so going to town now you hardly ever see one.The fish and game will do nothing to them no matter what they do.They wiped out one of the finest herd of caribou outside of town.They had horns like elk .They shot them cause they were easy and didnt understand english they said.If you cant speak english you sure dont have any business hunting.They have wiped out lakes of fish and will keep on the moose till they are gone.

Between the Russians and the fucking Japanese tourist the Game and Fish in Alaska has given away anything sportsmen hold dear.

I am still an Alaska resident, but I am thinking about moving to the Yukon when I retire, and saying screw the handgun rights.

I think there will be little or no hunting on the Alaska road system in 20 years.They want it to become a giant park that you will have to fly in order to hunt to not be seen by tourist.There are plenty of moose but you cant shoot them.Its a bunch of bull to let wolves,tourist,poachers ,cars and bears get the moose instead of hunters.

I don't think it'll take 20 years.