It would seem to me that to accomplish BOTH sheep and grizzly, you'd need something larger than the choices listed. You could build a fantastic rifle (that would still be pretty light) in either a 300 winnie or 300WSM. Either of those might be considered a bit light for the big bears, but they should do the job if you do your part.

Dear Clayman:

I agree that the 300 WSM or Win. Mag. is probably logical, but I would like to accomplish this goal using an 8mm either in slower moving form as an 8x57 AI or with more horsepower as an 8mm-338 Win. Mag. I am waiting to get feedback on a 323 Hollis (think 8mm mag.) that is being used in Namibia as we speak.

Where are you in the Philadelphia suburbs? Main line? I used to live in St. Davids years ago.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Even Jack O'Connor

yea I forgot about that fella that loved that caliber as well! I use over the yrs one of two .338 win mags (so called the Alaskan riflemans rifle), a 300 win mag, .375 RUM, a .457WWG and the lowly .30-06-now that is a good rifle. Standard 220 grain would penetrate any bear in close. My 45-70 used hard cast and penetrated really well, killed 4 or 5 nice int. grizz and does well with Moose too. I THINK that the Rem. I sold in the .375RUM was the perfect rifle- what a hammer and a flat shooter! I will miss that as a shooter but not as a rifle-maybe next will be the .375Ruger or I will have one here in the forum barrel me one in a VZ24 I have here into the .416 Ruger. My knees are not like they used to be so the thought of "dodging" a bear is highly unlikely anymore, would rather just hit them hard and take the steam out if the opportunity arises.

When I look back the handiest carrying rifle I really liked was that 760 Remington in a 18"bbl with 220 grain-I literally wore that one out. Lots of moose and bears fell to that.

I like bears and am purely amazed how God made the beast-pure admiration I have. But they do dumb things too just like humans and need skill and calm and the right bullet and in the right spot. Sometimes those combinations are not handy so bigger is better-just food for thought.

So many choices, whats a guy to do?

In a few weeks I will be back on the slope in the Hula Hula to the coast region. One of the handguns I will be using will be a wildcat
338X300WSM. Specifically after Grizzly, but will take both sheep and caribou.

Since you like the 323 caliber what about the 325WSM or the .325 on the Steyer or Ruger case?

Just a thought
Neal

Dear Grizz007:

Thank you for your thorough description of the rifles that you have used on grizzly. I'm thinking that a 8mm 220 grain Swift A-Frame would equal the 30-06 220 grain, and put me in a nice position.

My other idea is to hit them hard as you suggested with a 35 Newton AI that I am constructing later this year for Brown Bear and Moose. It might be a bit heavy for the mountains though.

Dear Ncooper:

I can get the 325 WSM to feed in a Mauser, but its a bit fat, and I am not terribly happy with the geometry. Plus, the bolt thrust probably will increase a lot with the large diameter at the head.

I would prefer the Ruger case without the silly belt, it's probably pretty over bore, so I may stick with the 338 Win. Mag. case.

Thanks for the idea.

I have a real respect for bear in general. I was told a story that I believe that a taunted 150 lb. black bear threw an iron stove at the guys pissing the bear off. Of course, the gentlemen were drunk, but sobered up pretty quickly after the stove was thrown at them in an up state Pennsylvania deer camp.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Hi Yale:

From one PA Hunter to another, how about a 338 RUM with a 250 grain bullet @ 2850 FPS....

My 300 RUM has taken 14 head of african game from 20 lbs to 3,000 lbs. But the 338 RUM seems like a perfect Big Brown Bear cartridge.

I just picked up a twin to my 300 RUM on a auction site, Remmie Model 700 LSS... they stopped making them about four years ago.

Where abouts in PA are you from?

Regards... Jim P.

;';HI KIDS ................Haven,t been around to stir the pot for some time.,. Straightening out the Glenn Hwy. takes alot of time.......,. A Lady that I work with who is a life long Alaskan ., And has lived and worked in the Interior all her life has a 7x57 that she has killed some truck loads of moose and caribou with.. Last fall she got a bull moose around 60 " with one shot ,., shot it in the lungs .,., She used her 338 for her grizzly and prefers it for bear but her 7x57 has kept them well fed for a long time....I think she uses Rem. factory ammo..not positive tho..The Lady I,m renting a cabin from .,., killed her Beautiful silvertip ., As pretty a rug as I have ever seen with her 06.,., As I see it there are a dozen or so cart.s that are perfact .,. 338 Win, 358 Norma 9.3x 62 , x 64 Brenn. 366 Alaskan 358 Wh, A I. or Gibbs.340 Whby 338 R U M 375 Ruger ., 375 H&H, 375 Whby,A I . ect . 378 Whby ,.375 x 404. 358 Shooting Times Alaskan .,., The ( Girls Guns ) don,t make my ideal list , But obviously have worked well for many...... Out of the original list I would pick the 8x57 AI., load it with a 250 gr woodliegh at 2400 fps and don,t worry about any shot beyond 300 yrds.. on bear nothin over 200 and preferably 30 feet..., Shoot it lots , have a nice trigger in it .,.,Just bring lots of reliable ammo and a spare scope that is sighted in, in spare rings .,., And good socks and long johns.,., Gumboot out .,.,

A friend of mine talked me into going to the Yukon on a Dall sheep hunt. Had the trip of a lifetime. Owned A model 700 in 300 Weatherby, light and accurate with plenty of punch. Found a model 70 stainless classic in 7 mm rem and bought it. Purchased A Swaroski scope in 3-10. Stainless is A great idea when in weather on A two week trip. The 160 Accubonds worked well if not perfect on a beautiful animal at A 170 yards. End of story, not exactly. First week after I got home I went out and bought A HS Precision lightweight in 300 Wsm. A light rifle was never important before the trip. Afterwards I had to have one. I found that I had to keep my rifle slig on my shoulder away from the mountain so I was always leaning twards the mountain. If I slipped, I fell twards the mountain. If I forgot and left the sling on the inside shoulder any kind of A misstep was really scary. A light rifle is a huge advantage in various precarious positions one finds themselves in on a steep and scree encumbered place. What ever you do hunt the sheep!

quote:

Originally posted by white bison:
In case I met a big bear...I would carry my .358 Norma magnum...it still would reach out fine.
While not an optimum sheep rifle, I like this cartridge as an all around number...and works just in case you need the power .. I like my .358 Norma in Grizzly country
& often carry it.
Best Regards,
Tom

...................What he said ........Or the 340 Whby or 338 RUM My favorite ism the 9.3x64 Brenneke ....Current load is a 250 TSX @ 2750 fps ........Oh ,, If you can get 3100 fps with an 8/338 win mag and 200 gr bullets, You will be right close to shrapnel wounds ,I,ve had a dozen 338,s and not a one of them would beat 3000 fps w/200 gr bullets ................I think the wildcat is fine ....A switch barrel may not be too bad an idea , but just pick and adequate medium bore and get to be real good friends with it .......Incidentally the 375 Ruger Alaskan fits the bill perfactly

I would advise against a wildcat in Alaska.Loose your ammo and your screwed.I would stick with the time proven 50 year old 338 win mag.It should have been called the 338 Alaskan beacuse its one of the most useful cartridges for Alaska.Its the smallest round I would shoot a grizzley with.They usually dont die easy.My 338s shoot under an inch at 200 yards .If I want more range I use my 338-378s weatherbys.I think a good 200 gr bullet is fine for sheep in the 338 .I use it on deer all the time.The 250 gr nosler partition at 2800 fps is awesome for grizzley.If you ever get charged you wont think the 338 is too big.I about got eaten in my tent by a few grizzleys one night I had my 338 win mag.Now my tent gun is my 416 rem mag.No gun is too big for a charging grizzley.I have watched them flip hudge metal dumpsters and take doors off of cars.They are alot stronger than you think.

I would be happy with any caliber from 7x57 on up..I have found that a 7x57 shooting a 175 gr. bullet at 2600 FPS is as effective as a 30-06 shooting a 180 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS..or even as effective as a 300 for that matter..Not a lot of difference in these calibers until you get to a .338 with heavy bullets..

Bullet placement and bullet construction are way more important factors than caliber IMO...

Any of the calibers you list will work just fine. I would opt for the heavy for caliber bullets in any of them..The 7mm with 175 gr. bullets is a real killer and the 06 with 200 0r 220 is an excellent choice on any bear, Alaskan Grizzly or Alaskan Brown..

Oooops!

Yale,
There is not a thing wrong with the 7x57 Ackley or the 30-06 Ackley, either one of them will kill a Grizzley with a well constructed bullet and a proper shot placement, and they will do it well....

Ray,
Would you see any problem with a M70 Featherwieght in a .280 Rem shooting 150gr Nosler Partitions at Dall Sheep and maybe an interior grizzly? It is a push feed and is classic blue and wood...

..........Dogcat ;; don,t you have a 416 Taylor , mayby I,m thinking of Jimatcat .,.,....What are you going to do if you run into a 8 1/2' square bear that weighs 800 lbs ...............Some interior grizzles get very big ...,.,.,., better practice head shots .,., .,.,., .....To me it makes much more sense to shoot a sheep with a bear rifle than it does a bear with a sheep rifle .... .,.,........

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:
Dear Mr. Dettorre:

Just about in your camp, but a slight modification, maybe, from the 8x68. I'm thinking about a 8mm-338 Win. Mag. with a Lilja #2 barrel. Redding has that cartridge in their custom dies stable, and Dave Manson will make me a suitable reamer.

That velocity with a 200 grain bullet at over 3100 fps, if verifiable, would make it a tremendous killer in my opinion.

Thank you for your opinion. I will look into the 8x68 availability as an option.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

........................Yale , have you been in comms with Kabluey....He has a 323 Hollis on the way some time .,. It is a 308 Norma necked up ..........It,s just odd but apparently that is the toy he wants ... I myself have Never gotten over 3000 fps with a 200 gr bullet from the 338 win mag so I really don,t see how you will from the same case necked to 323 ?????

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Any of the calibers you list will work just fine. I would opt for the heavy for caliber bullets in any of them..The 7mm with 175 gr. bullets is a real killer and the 06 with 200 0r 220 is an excellent choice on any bear, Alaskan Grizzly or Alaskan Brown..

...............................

quote:

............................... Confused thumbdown

tsk,tsk,tsk gumboot-cmon! it is bullet placement-hell in the old days when firearms were not as present possibly due to money that animals of all kinds have fell to the .22 caliber! I have family that can support that fact-shot placement in a cool hand will overcome-get in close and do er right.

This day an age will offer better bullets compared to the days of old so I agree with Ray on his choice of "heavier is better" philosophy(sp). I gave up all my "whiz-bangers" for the standard medium bores of heavy bullets-I use them an seen how effective they work.

Gumboot, that is like when I chose to carry around my 45-70 guide and heavy hardcast and sneak in close-what a job it does! I have never needed a big bore to this day-working on one now just for grins. But not to get carried away but I believe penetration comes from modest speeds and good sectional densities.

The 220 grain in my ole .06 worked very well for me for many years and never have felt undergunned-like you stated interior grizz get quite large for being away from the great food source the coastal brownies gorge on. I think they are just as tough and just as keen.

Choose a good bullet and place your shot-don't shoot unless you're willing to follow up the shot-period!

just my .02 or more.

regards,

..........Grizz ,., I know it can be done no prob , if every thing goes well .,., if you can smack them in the head and the bullet doesn,t deflect , which does happen .........No doubt alot of guys , and girls have done many, many years of hunting protecting and providing with their smaller rifles from necessity .,.,.,.,..........Most use a larger rifle now that we have gained experience ...,., Where I grew up in Maine was an old timer named Clovis Huston ,., he was in his late 60,s in 1969 so he was born around the turn of the century ........His moose rifle was a Remington model 8 I think that was the model in caliber 35 rem .. ..He had killed ALOT of moose in Maine before they were all gone for a time ...He thot the 30/06 was a huge wasteful cartridge that would ruin half a deer and wasn,t any better on moose than his 35 ........Another friend of mine from BC has killed as near as I know 2 moose , both with the 303 Savage .....The problem with the 30 cals is they don,t knock the fight out of a bear but they can ruin alot of meat ........To mee that is just stupid .. ...Even if it worked , my 458 works too ....I just don,t see ,,and [[like not agreeing with the point of tax and spend democrats ]] I will never agree that it works well ...I know way too many old timers like George Anderson and Tiger Inman who shot brown bears 7 times [ thats how many rounds a 17 Enfield held ]] and the bear ran off ., ., Remember these guys also shoot seals in the head with their 06,s so they wern,t just blazing away .....,....If yours worked well for you , great I,m glad .,. ,., .............But whereas the true medium bores , 338-375 work so well in so many different situations I will use them and my large bores and recommend the same .......Honestly , when you started out as a young man , had a 338 Ruger m77mk2 stainless with Nos.Part. or Barnes x been available and the same price as your 06 , like they are today ,,, Would you have still chose the 06 .. .......I remember the knuckle heads sitting around in Hightower,s Gun Shop down by Seward in 1980 and how they" recommended " the 300 for bear ,,,and how a guy on the ship I was on did also .He hunted Elk in Utah ........And I was young and stupid . ..................I would like to kick them stupid !@#$%^&*()(*&^%$#@! for costing me so much and postponing my real ability to enjoy heavy and dangerous game up close ...,.,.,....Their [ counsel ] got the s--t scared out of me more than once ..............Thank God for men like Al McDermott , Dave Hardy and Brent Hudson .........and men like Ben Forbes and Glen Morgan ................I learned to hunt deer with elephant guns ......Much easier than hunting bear with deer guns believe me .... ................,.,., For a new person , I say get a 375 Ruger Alaskan , put a Hawkeye plastic stock on it and a 2-7 leupold heavy duplex reticle ,,scope ,., buy a hunderd rounds of 270 gr factory ammo and a set of dies ,. and 250 gr TSX bullets for hunting and 235 gr speer bullets for blasting and take 30 years and wear it out .........

Dogcat,
I think a .280 with 150 or 160 gr. Noslers is an excellent choice for Grizzly Bear and an outstanding choice for Dall Sheep...

These animals are not Milsurp tanks as some profess, they are flesh and blood and if you tear up their lungs and heart they die, its that simple, if you don't hit them in the right spot they run off or maybe fight, its also that simple..

Some folks think they can make up for lousy shooting with a big caliber rifle, and that just not the case at all...Some even refer to "fringe" shots, whatever that is and a big bore will kill on the fringe shots", not so, a fringe shot is a wounding shot and not a killing shot, regardless of the caliber.

If one of these so called dangerous game animals charges, chances are the only shot that will end the fracas is a head or spine shot, I sure wouldn't put any faith in a big bore turning the animal,and it might, but you can not depend on that.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Dogcat,
I think a .280 with 150 or 160 gr. Noslers is an excellent choice for Grizzly Bear and an outstanding choice for Dall Sheep...

These animals are not Milsurp tanks as some profess, they are flesh and blood and if you tear up their lungs and heart they die, its that simple, if you don't hit them in the right spot they run off or maybe fight, its also that simple..

Some folks think they can make up for lousy shooting with a big caliber rifle, and that just not the case at all...Some even refer to "fringe" shots, whatever that is and a big bore will kill on the fringe shots", not so, a fringe shot is a wounding shot and not a killing shot, regardless of the caliber.

If one of these so called dangerous game animals charges, chances are the only shot that will end the fracas is a head or spine shot, I sure wouldn't put any faith in a big bore turning the animal,and it might, but you can not depend on that.

................................Ray , I don,t use a big bore rifle to make up for poor shooting ....And while you can state that you wouldn,t have any faith in turning a charge with anything less that a brain or spine shot , really all you have said is that you don,t have any experience with this situation and there fore are unqualified to make the statement regardless of your age .........................Tell me Ray , if the 06 is SOOOO Great , then why do you have 338,s 9.3,s 375,s 416,s and 404,s ........Why in the world would you want to endure any thing larger than a girls gun ..............................What is the closest you have got to a wild , un wounded brown bear and took the shot ???????...........

,.



....... ....... ......................................I,m done with this one

Dear Mr. Atkinson:

Thanks for the advice. I get 280 velocities from my already assembled 7x57 Ackley, and with a 160 grain Nosler Partition, I should be ready for a sheep hunt that might include a grizzly.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Gumboot458,
I use many different calibers and have all my life, and by doing so I have come to some conclusions on my own, and I state them here for anyone that is interested and wants to benefit from that experience...

I used the 30-06 for many years and still do from time to time just to remind me of my roots, I cut my teeth on it and the .270...I never cease to be amazed by its ability to get about any job done, but that does not limit me to not using larger calibers, I like guns and calibers and want a working knowledge of all of them and don't base my comments on those that I have not rung out so to speak...These are my opinions only and not ment to be taken as written in stone.

I certainly respect your comments and knowledge on big bores and never was not my intent to single you out, so please don't think that..I simply expressed another opinnion. and rest assured that I don't get my shorts in a wad over what ANYONE uses to shoot anything..That is strictly their concern..my opinion is mine only.

I've seen plenty of grizzlies killed with an '06, killed one myself with a 270 in a DLP situation. These were all interior bears, for the big coastal browns I would use a minimum of 338 and preferably a 375 H&H or 45-70 for up close work. Is it spring yet??

Just get a .300 win mag or .300wsm (what I shoot) and use premium bullets (barnes tsx) and you will be fine. I used to haul a 8mm mag sheep hunting, but use the tikka t3 .300wsm now. I have plenty of confidence that the .300wsm will "handily" take care of a grizz if needed. Just my experience, that I don't see a lot of grizz while sheep hunting, fact is I have never seen one, but feel very confident with the .300.

For shooting simply sheep the 7mmRM would be fine...but when shooting sheep you often are ringing the grizzly dinner bell...therefore I would be more inclinded to the 325WSN or the 338 WM...in my case it would be the 338WM.

Chris

Since you like the 8mm caliber and you are going to use an 08 Brazilian, why not just go with the 8mm-06 with 200 Grain Nosler Partitions and call it a day. You can easily extend the length of an argie bottom metal to take the 06 length cartridges, and they are pretty much going to work without a lot of fussing around to get them to feed.

As far as losing your ammo on the trip, why not just mail a few boxes up to the outfitter a month before the hunt. That way, if you lose some on the plane there will be some there for you.

well, after living in the yukon for more that 35 years, i can tell you that the minimum you should be looking at is the 358 winchester and more probably the 338 winchester magnum. or the 375 h&h. you can easily reach your sheep with any of these calibers and if you do meet a grizzly, which is totally possible, then no gun you have is going to be big enough. this aint the lower 48, and being undergunned is just foolish and could get you killed.dont want to scare you off but those calibre selections just aint enough when things go bad.grizzleys are bad customers that you just dont want to fool with.and killing a sheep with a 338 or a 375 is just as easy as with an 06. have fun, but be carefull.

quote:

Originally posted by jessi:
well, after living in the yukon for more that 35 years, i can tell you that the minimum you should be looking at is the 358 winchester and more probably the 338 winchester magnum. or the 375 h&h. you can easily reach your sheep with any of these calibers and if you do meet a grizzly, which is totally possible, then no gun you have is going to be big enough. this aint the lower 48, and being undergunned is just foolish and could get you killed.dont want to scare you off but those calibre selections just aint enough when things go bad.grizzleys are bad customers that you just dont want to fool with.and killing a sheep with a 338 or a 375 is just as easy as with an 06. have fun, but be carefull.

Lets see, .338 minus .308 is .30 or 30 thousanths of an inch.

Dear Jessi:

My original question was what would work effectively for interior grizzly when hunting sheep, etc.

What has worked for you in your experience when hunting sheep, caribou, moose and/or grizzly in Alaska?

Others on this forum have given me great advice, but have backed up their opinions with facts.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by AzGuy:
Yeah, what Marc said +1 --- take a 270 win, 30/06, or 300 win. Ain't no "AI" ammo in Alaska.

Yes, but the beauty of most of the Ackley Improved Cart's is the ability to Shoot Factory Rounds in the AI Chamber!! Bring what ever rifle YOU are most comfortable with and can shoot accurately. Buy a chronograph, do lots of load development, practice at as long a distance as you can(3-4-500yds?) You will not ever pack 2 rifles on a Sheep Hunt Again

Yale, you must have known you would get pleanty of guff when you mention Wildcat cartridges in conjunction with Alaska's outback, and the risk of not being able to use your rifle because of lost ammo. The one chambering you mentioned, however, that is not such a drawback if you loose your ammo is the 30-06 AI. With that one you can always use factory 30-06 factory ammo in a pinch, with little loss in velocity, because of the fireforming of the brass when fired, but it will work! The others you will be out of luck! Of the rounds you mention the 30-06 AI is the one I'd use. That is, of the chamberings you mention, but frankly none of them would be my first choice!

Like everyone else here I'd be tempted to go with a good Mauser 98, barreled for the 338 Win Mag, 300 Win Mag, or the 7mm Mag, and be done with that! The folks that advise you that a wildcat is taking a chance when hunting in bushplane country, and in Alaska in general, miles from the nearest city, or loading bench, are correct!

However, if those chamberings float your boat, then set sail, and good luck!

I think most of the time you will arrive with your ammo but it happened to me and I arrived for a hunt at the airport in Stokholm and found out my bag with ammo ended up in moscow. Good thing I had a 30-06 with me then.

My older brother has lived in and hunted Alaska for the last 18 years or so. He has killed just about every thing you can in Alaska. All but one animal dropped to his .375 HH. Only the Mt Goat we shot on Kodiak was shot with any thing else. He shot the Goat with a Ruger All-weather 7MM Mag.

If you know your rifle/ammo combination and are willing to work for the shot a .375 is incredibly versatile. Personally I would take my .338 Win Mag. With 225 grain TSX bullets. Only because I have not purchased a .375 Ruger yet.

A good friend and I found that some of the best groups we ever got out of his .25-06AI was from ammo he had loaded to fire form the brass with. It shot slightly better than the fire formed full tilt AI loads. I would not hesitate to rezero and shoot regular .30-06 ammo through my AI rifle in a pinch.

ok to date, i have killed 29 moose for myself. in order of kills, 300win mag, very effective with 180s,375 h&h, truely decisive. and more than a moose needs. 358 win, 250 grain bullets, also very decicive. and the 338 win. 250 bullets.just kills everything at any range. but for the one gun thing for the north then i would pic the 375h&h. might not get much use where you come from, but sure works here (up north) assuming you practice with it a bit. all of these rifles work very well, but the 375 is truely a giant killer with heavy bullets.and it will really reach out there too when you need it.oh yea , works good on bears too. happy hunting.cheers all

oh yea, this year i'm hot to try my new #1s in 9.3x74r. and bear season opens in a couple of weeks. good hunting all.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Chris,

Out of the choices you've provided I'd pick the 30-06 Ackley. With a premium 180 gr bullet you can easily make any 300 yard shot even if you only get 2800 FPS from blowing out the shoulder. An interior grizzly weighing 300 pounds is a big bear so the '06 should work nicely. The 8MM's certainly would work but if I was to move up I'd go to the 338WM.

Mark

I am with you on this, Mark. Heavy bullets for closer range work can be use with the .30-06. Not so with the others.

If more than a .30-06 is needed, then the .338WM.