Hi
I have been considering a Win Mod 70 .375 H&H for my hunt in 2007. Hase any one had any experince with the Mod 70 Like mine.
I bought a new in the box mod 70 .25 wssm. for whiteail and other small game. On my first trip to the range I brought some win factory loads 100gr supreme. When I fired them the bolt was difficult to lift the handle but I continued to zero the scope and the shoot some groups. This gun shot worst than any gun I have ever fired. 3-4 inches at 100 yards was the best group. so i checked the scope cleaned the gun and tried again another day after I bought another couple boxes of amo with the same results.
I could not belive my results so I took the gun to my gunsmith and had him remount the scope and then too the gun to a local guy that makes realy good custome ammo and left it with him to work up a load.


after a few days He called me and said to come pick up my rifle that he could not make it shoot.
I called winchester and the service people treated me like I was a idoit and were no help.Just told me to send them the rifle.
I talked to my gunsmith he said that in his experince that they would send the gun back and say there was nothing wrong with it. I belive Him after my conservation.
I'm stuck with a gun that I can't feal good about selling so I guese I'll let Kevin weaver rebarrel and square my action. around $500.
Has anyone else had thes problemes with winchester.
More important do you want a DGR made by a sorry Co. like Winchester.
Baylor Jewell

I have 2 of them, and I love them. Maybe it's that super-short cartridge that's the problem. Mine are chambered in 338 Win Mag.

First off, maybe you need a new gunsmith.

All companies send a dud out the door from time to time. You call Winchester a 'sorry Co.', which I assume you mean 'company' yet you haven't even given them a chance to fix things.

My 'bear gun' (dangerous game rifle) is a Winchester M70 and it has never failed me, and it's been used on several occasions. A smart hunter makes sure any rifle works properly before hunting things with sharp teeth and claws.

I think you need to do more of your own work, so you'll know things are done right.

You let someone else mount your scope...
Let someone else load your ammo...
Listened to someone else about Winchesters repair department...

There's a lot of things that could make this rifle inaccurate and your gunsmith should know them. If not, see my first suggestion.

Dr B,

I think you'll find on these forums any number of people that jump all over the manufacturer before trying to work out the problem and then that manufacturer will get royally reamed until the next problem occurs; then it begins anew(Win., Rem, CZ, etc.)....I know a gentleman that brought a very expensive custom rifle to Alaska to hunt sheep.......had problems not unlike yours.....stuff happens....BW gave you some sound advice.....take it to heart.....it was well meant.

Joe

Dr B,

I have a 338, 300, 270, 7MM WSM, and a 300 WSM all stainless Model 70 Winchesters. I have hunted with one or the other of them Worldwide and have never had one fail me yet!!! The 300 Win Mag is a real shooter and the 270 Win shoots good groups. I havn't had the WSM's long enough to wring them out but I think I can at least get hunting accuracy out of both. I can't believe you didn't send your gun back to the factory for them to try to fix the problem. They at least deserve a chance to rectify the problem.

Hawkeye47

I may get a few hostile posts for this one but I will stick my neck out. I have a M-70 in 375 that acted much like yours. I tried at least a half dozen different brands/kinds of ammo and it would not shoot...for a while. After 75 to 100 shots it began to improve dramatically. I also had a custom 7mm mag. with a Douglas barrel( my first custom rifle)that I couldn't get to group. I had a large amount of factory loads a good friend of mine gave me and I tried every different load I had. Most were Nosler partitions. Nothing would group. I figured it just didn't like partitions. Then, after about 5 or 6 boxes of ammo later, It began to improve. It became one of my most accurate rifles and would group well with just about everything I fed it. With that said, it has been my experience that other than some Remingtions, most barrels require some serious shooting or breakin to really shoot well. Whether it is the barrel "breakin in", smoothing out or the barrel and action settling in the stock I cannot say for sure. Don't give up on it for a while. Then again some just aint gonna shoot no matter what you do. I have had several Rugers like that. By the way, my 375 really likes 300 grain Nosler partitions over 72 grains of RL-15 and Fed 215 primer in Remingtion cases and will put them in 7/8 in. groups.

I agree with the rest here, every manufacturer turns out a lemon every so often. Send it back to Winchester and let them have a chance to work with you on getting the problem resolved. Don't dismiss them because of predisposed supposition you or your gunsmith (I'm not sure I would continue to use that guy as a gunsmith either) has. If Winchester doesn't come through for you, then fuss and fume all you want, but at least give them the opportunity to make it right.

My main hunting rifle is a Win 70 Classic Stainless in 300 Win Mag. I changed the original extractor with a Williams and replaced the tupperware stock with an HS Precision. When I first got the rifle it shot a little erratically but after about 200-250 rounds it settled down. Groups about an inch or less with every round I've tried in it with Win Fail Safes usually about 1/2 inch for 3 rounds at 100 yards. I have hunted all over Alaska in all types of terrain and weather with this rifle and am very pleased with its performance.

JD

Several People have sugested that the barrel might shoot in after 200 or so rounds. I have no desire or do I think I should have to spend $300 - $400 on ammunition and hours of time shooting in a barrel. Why cant Win get it right.
I have owned dozens of Rem 700's, 600's, 742's and 760's, also Browing BAR's, spring field M1A', H&K's, and colt's, None have shot this poorly. Hell I have a SKS that shoots better than this Winchester Mod 70.
What think I'm going to do is have my smith go through it and possibly change the barrel. One thing is forsure I will never buy another Winchester
Does any one have a sugestion on which DGR I should buy.
Does any one know what Phil Shomaker shoots.in 458 win mag.
Dr B.

98 Mauser.

For one thing you have not gave Winchester a chance to fix it! Unlike you I have had VERY bad luck with remingtions ( sucks) sakos and kimbers.
but in each case (except rem) the manufactuer has re worked the gun or repalced it. The kimber was a 22-250 it wold shoot 2'' at 100yds
I had the shop were I bought it send it in at no cost to me and it shoots 3/8 now!
I have 7 mod 70s and they all shoot very good!
I wold ask the shop were you bought the gun to send it in befor I spent 500 plus at the gun smith!
A DGR rifle you say I would keep it a CRF there are lots to chose from.
best of luck
and if you want to sell it cheep let me know

Just as you can't buy a racecar off a showroom floor, none of the factories offer a DGR, though most of them chamber their rifles in the larger calibers.

If you want a rifle that you pull out of the case, fill up the mag with whatever factory ammo you choose, and you get smooth feeding and good to great accuracy, then contact one of the top shops in the country and have them build you a DGR. It will however set you back more than a $500 rebarrel.

I have had Ruger 77, Browning Alaskan, Winchester 70, and BAR in 338. Also remmingtons in other calibers. So far all have been accurate although I did have problems with the Browning bolt action. The safety locked up on me on a couple of occasions so I got a full refund (after having used it for several years) from the factory and got the stainless model 70. Still the rifle that I lug around when conditions are lousy and I don't feel like taking much care of it. It is easy to keep working in extremely cold weather. Had the barrel chopped to 21" and it shoots 1" groups with factory ammo and my old eyes. Otherwise, I carry the BAR which I prefer for other reasons (mainly firepower).

I have a model 70 in 375 and live in AK. it's been everywhere and has killed everything I pointed it at...Good grouping about 1- 1 1/2in.

Dr B,

Quality control appears to go up and down with all of the firearms manufacturers, not just Winchester. As of late, it seems that Winchester has slipped a notch or two based on my experience but all was eventually corrected.

I made two recent purchases of Winchester rifles that I base this opinion on:

1). I bought a brand new M70 Supergrade (sight unseen) thru my dealer from Jerry's. Upon reciept, I noticed that the inletting and general fit and finish was not up to par w/ older Supergrades I've owned. This rifle was getting a once over by a gunsmith so I decided not to send it back. It became a money pit! The most bothersome issues were that the machine work on the reciever was sloppy from the factory. Simple things like the scope base mounting holes in the reciever were spaced correctly but drilled off line w/ the reciever. Just about everything that was machined, threaded, drilled or tapped were off spec. The rifle has had extensive work to it and is now a favorite of mine, but if I had it to do over again it would have gone back.

2). I bought a new M94 450 Timber for light carry while fishing. I have a couple of Marlins w/ the same sights and set-up but I wanted the Winchester because it is a far slimmer package and handles better. First thing I noticed were that the front and rear sights visibly appeared way off in height w/ the bore to regulate. When I measured, mathematically I saw no way they would regulate w/ in a normal zero range. This proved correct at the range as it would shoot way high. I contacted the manufacturer of the sights who in a nutshell said that he made the sights per Winchester's specs. He told Winchester that his math indicated that they would not work but Winchester assured him that their engineers said it would. When he requested Winchester give him a rifle to confirm this at his facilities, they refused. Fortunately he is a stand up fellow and has replaced the Winchester engineered sights w/ the correct ones. It now works well.

Overall, it troubles me that engineers at Winchester have trouble w/ math and the machinists and/or equipment cannot drill a straight hole. But w/ that said, I wouldn't sell or trade either rifle now.

Gary

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Just as you can't buy a racecar off a showroom floor, none of the factories offer a DGR, though most of them chamber their rifles in the larger calibers.

If you want a rifle that you pull out of the case, fill up the mag with whatever factory ammo you choose, and you get smooth feeding and good to great accuracy, then contact one of the top shops in the country and have them build you a DGR. It will however set you back more than a $500 rebarrel.

Actually, Weatherby offers a mark V DGR. I know it's the same action, but it's really built around this application.

I have 4 Model 70's and all of the problems I have had with mine have been my fault, loose scopes or bad handloads. I swear by them.

Winchester Model 70's have been my choice of actions for many years. The Pre-64, Classics and post 64 models have never failed me and I have absolute confidence in them. Sometimes the scope must be shimmed to accept scopes with minmal elevation and windage adjustment. Sometimes the action may need polishing to give it a slick and fast feed. Sometimes the trigger may need adjusting to your likeing. Once you tune it up to your specs and requirements you will fall for it like a Maiden's first love!

Buy a Ruger in 375 H&H and be happy!

although, i did not take my win. on my b.b. hunt i wanted to.

i have a win classic stainless with b.o.s.s. system pre 64 action in .30-.06. i have never had a f.t.f. or f.t.e. malfunction with this gun. it is also a tack driver with factory fed' h.e. ammo 180 gr. n.p. action is great.

maybe you caught a bad one and need them to fix it for you...

It really comes down to personal preference. A lot of game around the world has been killed with the Win Mod 70. I prefer Rem 700s and I have two perfect ones. I also had a dud many years ago. Everyone that is a serious shooter should know their weapon as if it were a part of their body. This solves a lot of problems.

Nearly all my rifles are Winchester M-70 and they all have been carefully glass bedded and the barrels floated. I work up loads for each and walla.....they all shoot 1.25 or so groups.

Only one I've ever had didn't meet the standards and that was a post 64 300 H&H and no matter what I did it shot 3" and larger groups.....I traded it off and someone else has it now.

For me the M-70 is the only rifle I'll buy unless I find a good post war Mauser and then it has to be very good shape.

Other than the flimsy synthetic stock I have no complaints about my Win 70 375 stainless. I replaced it with a hogue overmolded stock with full aluminum bedding block. This helped tremendously with accuracy. I also put the brockmans pop up peep bases with talley quick release rings. My rifle really likes nosler accubonds and will print them into a ragged hole at 100 yards all day long.

Dr B
I realize, I am chiming in late on this but I had exactly the same problems with a model 70 in 300 wsm, but mine shot extremely well even with the hard bolt lift. It would leave shiny spots on the base of the cartridge, I took the gun and some spent rounds to freer gunshop (winchester authorized repair shop) and they sent it back no charge no problem, winchester recut the face of the bolt and ended the problem. it shoots great now with no sticky bolt lift.

send it back winchester they have excellent customer service.jj

I have owned and shot literally dozens of Model 70's. I have about 15 in the rack right now in a variety of calibers suitable for the game I hunt, including a 375 for dangerous game. The ones I keep all shoot well. I have had a few that didn't group worth a darn. These get moved along at a gun show. Not every factory rifle is a tack driver. For that matter, not every "custom" rifle is either. More often than not it is a bedding problem, etc. that can be reasonably fixed. Sometimes the gun just won't shoot well, period. This is true of every manufacturer, again, including those costing several times as much (see the earlier Kimber / Sako reference.)
Stop bashing Winchester the company and move on. Accurate gun making is more art than science, and not every rifle will fire 1" groups. That is just the facts of life. That is why so many of us are truly happy to discover that wonderful rifle that seems to just keep putting bullet after bullet in the same hole. They are a true joy, but rare. It makes the search that much sweeter.
Good Luck.
Bill