I Flinch. Bad. But I'm getting ready to book and Alaska or Canada combo hunt that will include grizzley bear. I just want to get a feel for what the people that have actually hunted these animals think about this matter. Keep in mind hunt is guided.

Question:
What is the lightest caliber appropriate for a combo hunt that will include moose and interior grizzley?

Choices:
.270 Win
.30-06
.300 WM
.338 WM
.375 H&H
.458 Win

 

While I am not recoil shy, I think I would opt for a 35 whelen or 338-06 if I was.

my choice if I was encountering big bears would be 375 H&H

I would go with a 30-06. Load it with a good quality bullet and have no worries.

I carry a 30-06 alot and even though I dont hunt the big bear, I dont feel undergunned when I'm in there back yard.

As a guide my first question would be - do you still flinch with a .270? If so you ethically probably should either re-think your hunt or explain it to your guide and fully expect them to kill your animals. If you can shoot it then it will do but I would prefer if you brought an 06.

Wayfaring Stranger:

Were I in your shoes -- and let me first compliment you on being man enough to admit you have developed a flinch -- I would work to do away with my flinch before booking a hunt. You can train yourself not to flinch, though you may need to get some help from a good instructor to do so. If you handload, start shooting with light loads, along with some good instruction. May take some time, but it is very do-able.

Then you can pick a rifle. Getting over the flinch is paramount.

Good luck, and good hunting.

Dennis

I'm working on the flinch with my all my effort. I'm doing dry fire, ball and dummy exercises and shooting light loads out of my .270. Yes I flinch with any centerfire I've tried and the light loads out of my .270 are no heavier than a .243.

The reason I asked is I want to set reasonable goals and not book the hunt until I can get a grip on shooting the rifle needed for the hunt. So If I need, or should have something bigger I'm going to get one, work on my flinch with all the above methods until I can shoot it.

I know I should be able to shoot a .458 without flinching but I'd think a.30-06 would be a more easily attainable goal.

One thing that really helped me is to shoot a rifle that feels good when shouldered, and actually fits me. I am fairly light, with longer arms. What I went with was a rifle with raised cheek stock and a palm swell. Rifle was a Sako 75. There are others with same stock design, or you can restock a currently owned rifle. I can shoot it all day long. I looked closely at a Kimber Montana but it was just too small when I shouldered it. My friend has a Remington 700 in 06 that kicks me like a mule.

Stranger, have you fired a 270 with a muzzle brake? they work wonders bur Most guide dislike them ,but I would rather hold my ears and know the hunter was likely to hit their target than always be wondering if they were going to miss or wound and animal.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by akrange:
Stranger
The more you shoot.. The more control you'll have.. Invest in Range Time..
I'd also say a 7mm Rem. Mag. is a good choice..
Think like a GRIZZLY..
AK

I've used an -06 on all three and was very satisfied.

Do you flinch when shooting at game? Have you a history of missing game or is the flinch a bench thing. Shooting game is a lot different you might not have the time to get nervous and besides you'll probably have a pro beside you. Go plinking with a 22 every chance you can, you won't believe how much it helps, as your in field positions killing cans and rocks.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
I've used an -06 on all three and was very satisfied.

I am bringing my 375 and...I couldn't make up my mind so I am packing a dozen Sakos.

5 more days in Afghanistan and I head to CA for 9 days, and then it's off to Dillingham. Looking forward to a visit. Lou

Weather here is quite improved. Warmer temps and still a good amount of snow on the ground. Should be good conditions for spring bear.

Depending on how bad your flinch is it could be anything from simply annoying to a complete handicap.
I get a flinch from time to time, it is an involuntary scrunching of the muscles in my right shoulder and a spasm that runs down my right arm.
That is my warning sign that I have been shooting too many heavy rifles and not enough 22 ammo.
I had major surgery years ago on my right shoulder and do not have the back of my shoulder joint anymore, and really hard kickers basically attempt push the ball out of the socket, it only goes part way out and it snaps right back in but you can imagine it does not feel very good.
Not a sharp pain but more like getting kicked in the nads sort of thing.

Anyway I am only explaining this so let you know that your not the only one that fights it, and a few of us do understand a thing or two about it.

The very lightest caliber I would use for those three is an 06 and a 165 grain Barnes solid copper premium bullet.
165 is not too light, in the mono bullet it will penetrate better than a 180 partition, and about as well as the 200 grain lead core bullet and will retain just as much or more weight.

So personally I would take that caliber and load and if I could not figure out a way to be able to KNOW that I can hit a grapefruit at 250 yards ( and take a vow that 250 will be your absolute limit) then frankly I would no way in hell go on the hunt.
To go knowing that you cannot responsibly hold up your end would ruin it for me.
And possibly put you and your guide in danger.

However I would like to see you go on that hunt, so talk to us if you would.
When we flinch, we usually know what causes it.
It does not have to be one single factor, it usually is a combination of several in varying degrees.
But there will be one thing that jumps out in your mind as the real culprit, it could be the pain as in my case, or it can be simply the shock of the cartridge going off, or the noise , or even a fear of missing and creating target panic.
I am betting that you know which it is and it would help us help you if you could identify it a little closer.
There are many things that can be done, from longer barrels which help get the concussion further away and reduce kick. to more weight in the rifle to better recoil pads to recoil reducers to hearing protection to even mental exercises that you can do.

in the meantime do not wait another day before you go buy a thousand rounds of 22 ammo, and shoot it all in no more than three days.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Weather here is quite improved. Warmer temps and still a good amount of snow on the ground. Should be good conditions for spring bear.

Outstanding! Hopefully I will get enough time off to play. Will I be able to hunt bear? If not, I'd be happy just tagging along. Lou

Even though I've killed a ton of critters with the 270, i'd hunt with the '06. There's been more bears and moose killed with that cailber than any other and it will get the job done as long as you do your part.

I would opt for my 9.3x62, but since that was not on the list, I voted 338WM.

Well, I voted for the .270 Win. because that's what I have and feel very confident in using it. Since you've never hunted Ak., I might perhaps lean towards the .30-06. No flies on that.
Regarding your flinch problem, I'd agree with the comments made about more practice and also the fact that shooting at game is not the same as shooting from the bench. I don't really feel the recoil when I shoot at game. Having written that, I'd advise the you select the rifle you wish to take then use a PAST recoil pad and spend time on the bench. If you handload, you could even start with some reduced loads and gradually work up. Using a PAST, would be cheap and of course require no modifications to your rifle. Guess I'm biased here since I just hate any muzzle brake of any kind. The best way to clear a firing range is to use one of those.
Just my thoughts. Bear in Fairbanks

With modern "premium" bullets a 270 will handily kill all AK game, with proper shot placement. Where the larger calibers shine (338 on up) is providing a good blood trail, and throwing enough bullet to provide deep penetration and a decent diameter of wound. But, if you can't handle the recoil of a 338 on up, a 270 in the boiler room always trumps a 338 in the hoof.

But I'd also say if you can handle a 270, you can handle and -06.

Flinching is a curious thing, and not a simple matter of X caliber and under can be shot w/o flinching, and X caliber on up will cause flinching. I never flinched with either of my 458 lotts, but it took a tremendous amount of concentration to shoot them w/o flinching. I've flinched with my 10/22, because the bolt slamming back in the action was blowing my concentration. I also find the ar-15 anoying due to the buffer cycling next to my cheek in the stock.

What I've found helped me to deel with recoil and flinching is I needed to first convince myself that the gun wouldn't hurt me, have a gun that physically wouldn't hurt me, and then re-inforce that with range time. Sometimes range sessions have to be limited to a few rounds, that fine as if you try and shoot through a flinch, it'll be very hard to cure. I tried that with handguns and to this day I have a hard time not flinching with big bore handguns.

If you don't have a past mag recoil shield for your shoulder, get one, they make a world of difference. I'd say drop down to a .223, it is a wonderful training round, and cheap to shoot with military ball ammo.

I would say a 270 would do the job with todays bullet selection. I personally have taken several nice brown bears with a trusty Winchester Mod.70 30-06 that has been in my family since 1952. My son killed a nice goat with it when he was 10y/o as well. It's taken two moose, brown bears and dall sheep, but to be honest, if it was chambered in 270 I would have hunted with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
I Flinch. Bad. But I'm getting ready to book and Alaska or Canada combo hunt that will include grizzley bear. I just want to get a feel for what the people that have actually hunted these animals think about this matter. Keep in mind hunt is guided.

Jack O'Connor killed every species of N American big game with a Winchester 270.A hunter with a griffin & howe accurized 1903 Springfield 30-06 also killed all species of N American big game by 1924.When I looked up the most popular caliber used in alaska it was the 30-06.I've never hunted in AK but I've used my Sako 06 for mule & blacktail deer & my Sako 300wm for mule deer & elk.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H

Flinching is a curious thing, and not a simple matter of X caliber and under can be shot w/o flinching, and X caliber on up will cause flinching. I never flinched with either of my 458 lotts, but it took a tremendous amount of concentration to shoot them w/o flinching. I've flinched with my 10/22, because the bolt slamming back in the action was blowing my concentration. I also find the ar-15 anoying due to the buffer cycling next to my cheek in the stock.

What I've found helped me to deel with recoil and flinching is I needed to first convince myself that the gun wouldn't hurt me, have a gun that physically wouldn't hurt me, and then re-inforce that with range time. Sometimes range sessions have to be limited to a few rounds, that fine as if you try and shoot through a flinch, it'll be very hard to cure. I tried that with handguns and to this day I have a hard time not flinching with big bore handguns.

If you don't have a past mag recoil shield for your shoulder, get one, they make a world of difference. I'd say drop down to a .223, it is a wonderful training round, and cheap to shoot with military ball ammo.

> I find this to be very true ... I don,t see much difference between the 270 Win and the 260 Rem ... And I don,t believe the animals would react any differently between one and the other ... With a 130 gr TSX , ect the 260 would work as well as any other small caliber ..But would be even easier to shoot well ...

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
I Flinch. Bad. But I'm getting ready to book and Alaska or Canada combo hunt that will include grizzley bear. I just want to get a feel for what the people that have actually hunted these animals think about this matter. Keep in mind hunt is guided.

Hello W. S.,

Ask your guide what to do about this situation and then you need not endure my attached long post of blabber about same.

Otherwise, here it is;
Like one or more persons here has already done, I too would like to compliment you for being man enough to admit you do not take well to recoil or perhaps the noise or both. I don't like it either. In high school I was a fairly stout and otherwise macho lad but I took a lot of ribbing for choosing the 6.5 Italian cartridge/Norma factory 160 grain RNSP as my personal favorite deer getter. I readily admitted my fondness for it due to its very mild recoil. (The rifle was truly unsafe junk but I still like those particular ballistics for teaching kids to shoot centerfire "deer rifle" type weapons).

Have lived in AK for about 27 years now and have known people to take moose, bear and everything else with the most bizzare minagerie of cartridges imagineable. These include .22 rim fire through the big cannons that I can't even mention without developing a flinch of my own just from merely breathing their names.

Being a rifle nut (perhaps just a nut in general), I went through a .270 Winchester thing as part of my "velocity madness" phase. I used to hang on Jack O'Conner's every word about the .270 in Outdoor Life magazine. I've owned more than a couple .270s and have shot a few deer and caribou among other critters with them. Don't own one any more. Reasons being that I eventually got it through my thick skull the following three things:

1. .30-06 ammo is available in every corner of the WORLD that big game is hunted, in case my ammo does not arrive with my rifle. The .270 is not so "world wide".

2. Yours truly can easily hit anything with a .30-06 that I can hit with a .270 Win.

3. Many (not all, so don't anyone have a hissy fit here) bullets available for the .270 were in my carefree youth somewhat overly destructive on venison.

I am a meat hunter more than anything else. Bullets are better these days (under statement) but, I have moved on any way.

Since the .270 is not a real heavy recoiler, I wonder if your flinch is more from the very sharp report that the .270 has? The .270 is loaded to relatively high pressure and it is all forced out through a sort of smallish pipe hole. This can be problematic even through ear protection, especially under the typical tin roof of many rifle ranges.

Muzzle brake? Don't like 'em. I ALWAYS wear heavy duty ear phones when practicing. Unless things happen too fast, I even take a couple seconds to put in foam plugs prior to shooting an animal. That being said; Personally I have experienced ear ringing, "shooter's bells" while driving home after someone was shooting through a muzzle brake two benches away from me at the local range. Call me a Technology Heretic for saying that if you like but that has been my personal experience. I've been called worse.

If you decide to use your .270 any way, you will probably clobber the living daylights out of everything you shoot correctly through the vitals with it, especially if you hit 'em spot on with a premium/very tough bullet. Anything you shoot in the foot or the guts will likely run away as if on fire, no matter what caliber or bullet you do so with.

Admittedly I am not a bear hunter (too cheap to have the $$$$ rug made) however, more than one of my personal friends are and they almost all use the .375 H&H with .300 grain bonded core soft nose. Many times I have been way too close to grizzly, primarily while fly fishing for salmon (my other "problem") but so far have not had to shoot one. It is always heralding to look up from releasing another fish only to see a bear staring at you from the bank weeds, merely feet not yards away.

My favorite bear scenario is to be awakened by one rooting around just outside the tent. I have actually had one press his nose against me in the pitch dark and sniff deeply like a huge dog would do (October/Uganik River/Kodiak). During such times, I take comfort in the .375 but, enough big bears have been sacked with the old .270 among other smallish calibers to say you must have a .375. Again, I strongly urge you to abide by your guide's recommendations in all maters, including rifle/scope and cartridge/bullet choice. Most of them are experts at what we are paying them to do.

Last but not least, most of us tend to worry about being clobbered by a bear while in the wilderness of Far-North America however, if you bite the big one in AK it statistically will be from; a plane crash or drowning or hypothermia. Comforting thoughts. (Sorry man, but I had to throw that in because I'm a smartazz).

We all flinch from time to time. Anyone who says they never do so is only kidding themself.

Hope you have a great time in AK.

Ard.

Thanks all - there's too many good posts to respond to each.

I think my flinch is mostly on the range - I killed my last deer at 244 yds and a couple of others at a little over a hundred, offhand, and without need for follow up. I've killed a coupla deer and elk without loosing any. I am capable of making good shots - I just can't seem to do it on the range. Still I feel like I need to prove it on the range.

I think I both have flinch and target panic. I can group well on the bench by using a good rest, lining up, and slowly squeezing until it goes off (when it does it surprises me). With that techniqe I can shoot 1" groups. Now when I go to the 200 yd range and try to hit a 9" bullseye off my shooting sticks I get around 60%. at that range I can't just squeeze until it goes off, I have to squeeze the instant the crosshairs touch the bullseye. I also missed a few ground squirrels at a shamefully close range over the weekend.

I practice dry firing almost nightly. I shoot my rifle about 3x a month and last year I fired around 250 rnds of centerfire - so its not entirely a lack of practice.

As far as rifles I have a nice heavy 270 with a 24" barrel for practice. I would get a muzzle break but I don't want to part with it for the month+ it will take. I shoot a 100 gr bullet over 41 gr H4895 which feels about like a .243
I'll definitely look into a better the recoil pad.

I feel like I can beat this sooner or later but the last thing I want to do is undo what little progress I've made by getting a big boomin magnum if I don't need it for the hunt.

And from what it sounds like - I don't.

Maybe you are shoot to much at one time? Flinching is all in between your ears. The 270 is plenty cartridge, try shooting just two a day or every other day for a while. And shoot a 22 a lot. The next time you go to the range, just sit down and put one shot where you want it to go, at 200 . Don't over think it, just do tell your brain to tell your eye and trigger finger to do it.

Tricks to prevent the flinch.
1- Always wear premium ear protection preferably earmuff type when not field hunting.
2- I am assuming that you have a rifle that truly fits you properly. It would amaze you how few actually do.
3- Limit your shooting at the bench to absolutely as little as you can. Do your practice from offhand or sitting/kneeling.
4- When you shoot off the bench do not slouch over the rifle and lean into it (no body give). By this I mean you sit upright and cheek it like you would in the field then your body will be able to absorb the recoil and move freely with it.
5- Get a PAST recoil shoulder pad. I used the cheapo system for years.. an old wool tuque under my sweater or coat.
6- Make sure your rifle wears a premium recoil pad such as the Pachmyr Decelerator.
7- 458.. mentioned the muzzle break...
8- Make sure your mounting the rifle correctly. One example.. I saw a fella at the range that held the butt barely touching his shoulder thus giving the rifle a nice run at it every time he fired. Others commonly put the point of the butt in the most sensitive part of the shoulder. I think its a good idea to raise your elbow hi so your upper arm is parallel to the ground, this makes a nice easy to find pocket for the rifle butt to mount your shoulder.
9- Make the rifle heavier. A pound or two can make a hell of a difference. There are also recoil reducers that fit in the butt stock that can help.
10- Thats about it for now but theres a lot of info here that can surely help.
Good Luck and hope you lick it!

I voted .338 caliber to take into account the worst possible situation and angle of shot.

Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

How is your trigger?
A good crisp light trigger makes a lot of difference in being able to touch it off on command instead of as a surprise.

I voted 30-06 because it will carry the biggest payload with the least recoil of all the above mentioned.
Sims Limbsaver pads are better than the Decelerators, from what I hear (no experience with the Limbsaver).
Practice lots with low recoil rounds like a .22 Rimfire.
I find that a fleece vest folded in quarters works very well for recoil reduction in my -06.
Hope you get a bear.
Good hunting,
Graham

I've used a 270 on all but moose (never had a tag), but these days would feel more comfortable with a 375. I really don't think they kick that much in a 9 lb plus rifle.

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:
Do you flinch when shooting at game? Have you a history of missing game or is the flinch a bench thing. Shooting game is a lot different you might not have the time to get nervous

I dont neccesarily agree with this statement, and fully believe a flinch or recoil/muzzle blast is in your sub conscious mind, no matter what your shooting at! Sure you may not remember the shot, but your brain knows its gonna happen.

I have guided in the Yukon, BC & Alberta for 11 years, and in that time have witnessed several clients "flinch" because their gun didnt go off when shooting at game, be it because in the excitement they left the safety on, or maybe didnt have a round in the chamber....the visual flinch was there. Who has seen it on hunting shows or Videos? I have.

Can I ask how you acquired a flinch so bad that it remains with any centerfire?

I would take Phils advice, wait to book until you have this figured out. No one wants to spend the money involved in a hunt like this, and fail because you couldnt hit the animals.

my .02

cmfic1,

Being a trap shooter (where a lot of people flinch), it's a horrible thing to have to break. Most trapshooters whenever they develop the dreaded flinch, go to a release trigger. Can't do it with hunting rifles (or no one has that I'm aware of). Plus, there's the safety issue, as well. Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily worry about the guys that flinch when their rifle doesn't go off. That's the brain freaking out when the loud noise and "bump" it new was going to occur didn't. It's subconscious, a reflex more than anything because of the absence of those things. Most people will flinch when their gun doesn't go off, if you watched a video of it, and played it in slow motion, you would hear the click...a split second pause, and then the flinch, no worries there.

Back to the original question, I agree with the guys that say go to a .22. Funny thing for me is, I can shoot all of my rifles between .30-06 and .375 and not have a problem. My .22-250 (a heavy varmint rifle) is another story, though. I don't know why, but if I get careless and don't really concentrate with that rifle, I flinch when shooting from the bench only. I take a couple of shots with the .22, and everything seems to be fine. More good suggestions were regarding the fit of your rifle and good ear protection. In shotgunning most flinches are from not seeing the target, I would imagine shooting off of the sticks with the crosshairs moving around the target, yours is much the same. Try to burn a whole through the target with your eyes, you want your focus on that, not the crosshairs. It will take some geting used to, but you will eventually get it. Try even keeping the crosshairs on the target for an extra second so you don't have to rush the shot as your crosshairs move across it, too. Again, it will slow you down on the range and will take some getting used to, but if you have killed some deer and elk, you'll be able to adapt it to your field shooting, also. You'll get through it, it might take some powder and lead, but you'll get it.

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:



Can I ask how you acquired a flinch so bad that it remains with any centerfire?

I would take Phils advice, wait to book until you have this figured out. No one wants to spend the money involved in a hunt like this, and fail because you couldnt hit the animals.

my .02

Call it lack of guidance. I didn't grow up in a hunting family. My first rifle I got when I was 16 was a 7mm mag. The I traded that for a Kimber .308 but it was such a light rifle It seemed to kick just as hard. SO now I have a Rem .270 that weighs about 8lb which is definitely the lightest recoiling rifle I've owned.

I think the 7mm gave me the finch and 10 years later I haven't conquered it. I have managed to make som e good shots on game though, which gives me hope.

quote:

Originally posted by JustinL01:
cmfic1,

Being a trap shooter (where a lot of people flinch), it's a horrible thing to have to break. Most trapshooters whenever they develop the dreaded flinch, go to a release trigger. Can't do it with hunting rifles (or no one has that I'm aware of). Plus, there's the safety issue, as well. Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily worry about the guys that flinch when their rifle doesn't go off. That's the brain freaking out when the loud noise and "bump" it new was going to occur didn't. It's subconscious, a reflex more than anything because of the absence of those things. Most people will flinch when their gun doesn't go off, if you watched a video of it, and played it in slow motion, you would hear the click...a split second pause, and then the flinch, no worries there.

Back to the original question, I agree with the guys that say go to a .22. Funny thing for me is, I can shoot all of my rifles between .30-06 and .375 and not have a problem. My .22-250 (a heavy varmint rifle) is another story, though. I don't know why, but if I get careless and don't really concentrate with that rifle, I flinch when shooting from the bench only. I take a couple of shots with the .22, and everything seems to be fine. More good suggestions were regarding the fit of your rifle and good ear protection. In shotgunning most flinches are from not seeing the target, I would imagine shooting off of the sticks with the crosshairs moving around the target, yours is much the same. Try to burn a whole through the target with your eyes, you want your focus on that, not the crosshairs. It will take some geting used to, but you will eventually get it. Try even keeping the crosshairs on the target for an extra second so you don't have to rush the shot as your crosshairs move across it, too. Again, it will slow you down on the range and will take some getting used to, but if you have killed some deer and elk, you'll be able to adapt it to your field shooting, also. You'll get through it, it might take some powder and lead, but you'll get it.

I shoot a lot of clays and I was wondering if that was contributing to the problem. 100 rnds of 12 ga can wear your shoulder pretty good.

Stranger,

I am not a professional, just someone who suffers from the Flinch! You have received great advice in this thread but I just have to restate some of the things.

If you have money:

Get a custom stock that fits.
Get a trigger job on your gun
Get a short heavy barrel - of course, balance it with your gun and stock.


When you are finished building the gun you will hunt with then build the same gun for a smaller caliber but on the same action length.

Practice with the smaller caliber. When you pick up your hunting rifle you will not even know you are pulling the triger on the bigger gun.

Like others have already said practice from shooting positions. Your body is much better at assumulating the recoil and your focus is on holding the gun on target not on the recoil.

If you are brown bear hunting practice at close ranges standing up. start at 25 yards then back to 50 then to 75. Who wants to shoot a bear at 250 yards. Get close that is hunting. Remember I have never even seen a bear while hunting.

Some one on this forum offered the following solution in another thread. They said to pull forward on the forend of the gun while pulling the stock to the sholder. I havent tried this but they said it reduced recoil for them.

Skipp the muzzel break the noise alone will make you flinch! Been there and done that with a 300 winchester mag.

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
Thanks all - there's too many good posts to respond to each.

I think my flinch is mostly on the range - I killed my last deer at 244 yds and a couple of others at a little over a hundred, offhand, and without need for follow up. I've killed a coupla deer and elk without loosing any. I am capable of making good shots - I just can't seem to do it on the range. Still I feel like I need to prove it on the range.

I think I both have flinch and target panic. I can group well on the bench by using a good rest, lining up, and slowly squeezing until it goes off (when it does it surprises me). With that techniqe I can shoot 1" groups. Now when I go to the 200 yd range and try to hit a 9" bullseye off my shooting sticks I get around 60%. at that range I can't just squeeze until it goes off, I have to squeeze the instant the crosshairs touch the bullseye. I also missed a few ground squirrels at a shamefully close range over the weekend.

I practice dry firing almost nightly. I shoot my rifle about 3x a month and last year I fired around 250 rnds of centerfire - so its not entirely a lack of practice.

As far as rifles I have a nice heavy 270 with a 24" barrel for practice. I would get a muzzle break but I don't want to part with it for the month+ it will take. I shoot a 100 gr bullet over 41 gr H4895 which feels about like a .243
I'll definitely look into a better the recoil pad.

I feel like I can beat this sooner or later but the last thing I want to do is undo what little progress I've made by getting a big boomin magnum if I don't need it for the hunt.

And from what it sounds like - I don't.

Hello again W.S.,

Sounds like your flinch has little or nothing to do with actual recoil but you are wise to not buy a bigger rifle prior to ironing out your flinch issue. IF it is a NOISE thing, the muzzle brake will likely make your problem worse (as others have mentioned here). When used on a high pressure cartridge type weapon, MBs have made my ears ring for awhile afterwards right through the hearing protection. For that reason, I do not care for them.

Those contraptions are not quite so brutal on lower chamber pressure rounds (like .45-70 etc.) but they still increase the perceived blast to you the shooter and to your guide who will be busy peering through his binos at your critter as you fire. The very last thing you want to do is annoy your guide, seriously.

If the flinch is not from noise or actual recoil, I can only guess that you are already on the right track to defeat it with all that you are doing. Incidently, coffee gives me the shakes and I avoid it if I am wanting to do load developement or hunt prairie dogs, etc. By the way, plunking your deer at 244 yds is not indicative of someone who flinches, at least on that shot any way.

Your attitude is well placed in declaring that you can defeat this problem. With that attitude, sooner or later you will hit your groove and be Hell on wheels from that point on.

Back to the cartridge vs the critters. Yours truly is a heavy bullet for heavy game kinda guy but, I repeat that your .270 with premium bullets will likely work, even if it is not the cartridge I would choose. I tend to use enough gun and sometimes plenty more than enough gun for whatever dysfunctional reason. One of my amigos in AK uses primarily the .260 Remington for everything except grizzly and he has made some noise about doing just that one day. (Hope it works out for him.)

Another friend of mine brought his .270 to Africa for his first trip over and totally let the air out of a fair number of critters with it. He chose the factory loaded 140 grain Swift A-frame and it was impressive for such a small-ish projectile. His motto is; "Power is fine but accuracy is final". Again, even though I am from the "right tool for the job" school, nonetheless, I mostly agree with his philosophy (well, to a point).

Best of Luck with it all.
Ard.

quote:

Originally posted by Ard:

Sounds like your flinch has little or nothing to do with actual recoil

That is a very interesting insight but I'm not sure I fully understand it.

I do understand that:
1) Its probably not a noise issue as I wear earplugs and headphones, and a .270 out of a 24" barrel has relatively little blast

2) The recoil doesn't hurt - even after 30 shots. My shoulder is never sore after shooting.

So if its not noise, and its not pain, what the hell is it?
Either
1) I'm self sabotaging and its time to see a shrink
2) My usual technique of shooting off the bench is the culprit. I squeeze until it goes off and when it does it surprises me. Most times I can see the scope accelerating toward may face before I blink. Maybe that's why I flinch!?!?!!?

quote:

Originally posted by slimtim:


If you have money:

Get a custom stock that fits.
Get a trigger job on your gun
Get a short heavy barrel - of course, balance it with your gun and stock.

I'm in the process of collecting Browning A-bolts (fit better than the Rem)

If you can see the scope accelerating towards your face then you are not flinching
The shot is already long gone by then
The surprise break isa crock of shot in my opinion a hunter needs to know exactly when that thing is going off

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:

quote:

Originally posted by Ard:

Sounds like your flinch has little or nothing to do with actual recoil

That is a very interesting insight but I'm not sure I fully understand it.

I do understand that:
1) Its probably not a noise issue as I wear earplugs and headphones, and a .270 out of a 24" barrel has relatively little blast

2) The recoil doesn't hurt - even after 30 shots. My shoulder is never sore after shooting.

So if its not noise, and its not pain, what the hell is it?
Either
1) I'm self sabotaging and its time to see a shrink
2) My usual technique of shooting off the bench is the culprit. I squeeze until it goes off and when it does it surprises me. Most times I can see the scope accelerating toward may face before I blink. Maybe that's why I flinch!?!?!!?

W.S.,

Perhaps you have hit on something with the self sabotage idea. Not sure. However flinching is sometimes also known as "Pre Ignition Push" or PIP. In other words, self sabotage. I repeat, we all experience it from time to time, even with the rim fire calibers.

If PIP is what you are up against, only you can win that fight. The Brits say gin is good for; "The PIP, The Grip and the Occaisional Slip". (I do not recommend gin while handling weapons).

On the other hand, after you mentioned that you have no shoulder discomfort after a range session, I still suspect noise rather than actual recoil is to blame. If not entirely, at least in part.

It is wise to wear both plugs and phones but if your shoulder is not a little sore and you are still flinching, I repeat that I do suspect noise is an issue. Perhaps more accurately put, your anticipation of the noise is your culprit, right through the hearing protection and all. Our facial bones transmit a bit of noise to the ear drum even though our ears are plugged and covered.

This probably explains why my ears have been rung pretty well via some hot rod rifle with muzzle brake, right through my ear covers. Hopefully you can reason this out and press on with better accuracy thereafter. It is sort of like boxing lessons. After you get past the fear of being popped in the face it all sort of goes alot better and the lessons begin to make sense from then on.

Don't sell short your 24" barreled .270 in the muzzle blast department. It is a very sharp crack when it discharges and although perhaps not as much in deciples as some belted magnums, it is very intense and "sharp edged" in report. Sort of like a baby screeching as opposed to a bass opera singer. The opera singer has way more volume but the baby will run me out of a room every time with that high pitch screeching.

Best of luck with it all.
Ard.