I higraded this from one of the other boards that I visit

Hello to all

I would like to ask some opinion to the Alaskan experts.
I must state before hand and I never been in Alaska and i alays been fascinated by the wildlife up there and terrified by the stories that I read about bear encounter where a charging grizzly soaking up 375 bullets like candies...


Few weeks ago I strike friendship with a Russian co-worker. Grigory was born in Siberia, the Kamchatka Peninsula to be precise and he come from a family of hunting tradition...in few words he is into widlfle a lot and a gun lover.

Well, it may sound harsh (his words not mine) but he dismisses as pure nonsense that you need at least a 338 and higher for adequate bear defense...he makes joke with us about the "typical American" fascination with super calibers...

He told me that over there the most common caliber used are 7,62 X 39 and 6,5 X 55 for deer (the 6.5 is used for Moose too), the 7,62 X 54R (obviously one of the most common caliber there with ton of sporterized Mosin nagant around) and the 8 X 57 (the 8 mm Mauser) are reserved for the biggest encounters with some occasional 8 X 68 or 9,3.

He told me that the 54R is considered "too powerful" for Moose unless you use lighter bullets.

He says that in Siberia they put down VERY EFFECTIVELY big brownies and Polar bears with the 7,62 X 54R..

That is what they use for charging defense (together with 12 gauges shotguns)

He mentioned an episode where a big nasty charging brownie has been hit in the chest by a 54R round and the bullet went all the way through, broke the hump and left an exit hole bigger than a fist....

He finally told me, "I love guns and I own a .416 myself here in America but for bear defense the 54R is way more than adequate and there are no bullet proof bears...all you need to do is shoot right...if you are a lousy shooter there is no gun adequate for defense...you hit a bear in the wrong spot even with a 50 BMG you just make them angrier at you...."

What is your take guys?? Most of you live up there and I bet witnessed some hairy situations....where is the truth??? Do we have bullet proof bears in Alaska???

In some post I read that even a 30-06 is not adequate against a charge...and that 338 is barely minimum...

Siberians are better shots than us??

The man knows what is talking about - rather than repeat myself see my post on "is gumboot right"

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
I higraded this from one of the other boards that I visit

Siberians are better shots than us??

I think this more likely means that more Siberians are killed by bears than us.

.........The long Russian round is "way more than adequate"..,., Well if its [WAY MORE THAN ADEQUATE]Then what the 30/30 is adequate ??? Pinnell and Tallifson did not think so .......I,ll go with what they say rather than what this guy says ..

Back in the early 1980s, when hunting was first opening up in Russia for foreigners, an article appeared in English shooting sports magazine "Shooting Times".

They made mention of the type of rifles, calibres and equipment used to hunt bear, boar and Daghestan goat and sheep in what is now Chechnya, Gerogia and other 'fun' places.

The sporting holidays were booked through an Intourist type company for travel and accommodation and another company, if I remember correctly, for the hunting.

Anyway, to the rifles / calibres. The most popular rifle was a carbine in circa 9mm calibre. Telescopic sights were very difficult to obtain permission for, but some had them. The makers name, or brand was "Medved", or something similar if I remeber correctly.

The English shooting journalist said they looked quite capable of dealing with boar and bear. I am guessing, based upon memory of the article, the cartridges were something along the lines of a 9x57mm Mauser, 9.3x57 Mauser or a 7.62x54R Russian service rifle cartridge opened up to take a 9mm bullet.

I believe the 9.3x64 Brenneke is popular in Russia now. A derivative of it being used as a heavy military sniping round, like the .338 Lapua. So, Russian 'stuff' would not be any slouch on the effectiveness scale.

From the description of the hunting terrain / conditions, long shots would not be called for. They were hunting in thick coniferous forests in Siberia with deeply incised river channels / creeks etc.

Sounds alot like the thick woodland in eastern USA, where the .350 Whelan with 250 grain bullets at 2400-2450fps muzzle velocity has built itself a good reputation on big Black Bears. Previously, the .35 Whelan had been used in Alaska successively, according to the 'old time' literature.

Away from salmon rivers, I am guessing a big brown bear is not going to be much larger than 8.5feet and 500lbs body weight, due to the harshness of existence and food supply.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

...Agreed

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
.........The long Russian round is "way more than adequate"..,., Well if its [WAY MORE THAN ADEQUATE]Then what the 30/30 is adequate ??? Pinnell and Tallifson did not think so .......I,ll go with what they say rather than what this guy says ..

Easy now, P & T also said the 30-06 was ENOUGH

Probably useing ball ammo, good penetration.

I have read all of the P & T books and they may have said the 30-06 was enough but they packed the .375 H&H and one of them said it is the perfect Brown Bear chambering. Good shooting.

.....In one of the books about P&T Morris Tallifson relates a story about how close he got a hunter to a bear ...If I remember right it was he estimated 9 feet but backed away because he knew if someone shot at that distance the bear would get them .....And he had his 375 with him ................That must have been plenty of excitement for all hands involved !!!!