Has anyone seen this Cabela's movie with the brown bear charge at the end. It takes a little while to watch but man o man did that look incredible. Guide seemed to do his job very well. I'd like to hear what the experts here think. Follow the link and scroll down to Alaskan moose and brown bear combo hunt. Click watch this movie and the bear is at the end. Overall video quality and reality of the hunt seemed good, even the poor shot on the moose with the bow.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/abo...304&_requestid=64709

That is a sad video of sow being shot in front of her cub.

This tragic video shows one reason why a large magazine capacity is helpful.

You can spray water into a bear's face, kick dust into a lioness's face or put a bullet through an elephants ear, and often change their attitude , and yet you are still ready to go if it doesn't work.

Saves alot of paper work.

If you have a double rifle you can try it once but then you are left with just one shot and not much time.

I arrived at that camp the day the Cabela's crew left. They left in the plane we arrived in. Speaking with them personally about the Moose and bear hunt was exciting as they relived the hunt. The bear hunt went as planned until the sow stood up in the sand dunes and made a direct unfaltering charge towards the hunters.
The guide had no alternative but to shoot or get mauled. Mr. Charles Allen did what he had to do. I would not have waited until the bear was down my throat till I took some action. Personally, I would have shot the bear when it was at the 10-20 yard range. Charles waited as long as he possibly could. It is sad the bear had to be shot. However, the clip clearly shows it was the only thing left to do. Charles was shouting and waving his arms to turn the sow. Unfortunately, the sow never gave up the charge and Charles was forced to shoot. Put yourself in this situation and honesty decide when would you would have fired. If you or him had waited later, then I really believe the clip would have shown a mauling. Charles was really upset about having to kill the sow but again as a guide his responsibility (protecting his clients)and for his own self preservation, no other alternative was available! Charles Allen owns the Alaska Expedition (DriftWood Lodge) and Knives of Alaska. He is a personal friend of mine and one fine man and great hunter. If you ever get the chance to meet and visit with him, you will have met a man that has a great respect and passion for Alaska's wildlife. Charles looks upon that incident as a great tragedy and speaks about it in that nature.

Mr. Allen really seemed cool under the pressure. As I mentioned, it looked like the hunter hit the "flight" button (I probably would have curled up in the fetal position) and the guide moved forward, front and center and took over. I don't know the guy at all but he was clearly pissed and upset that he had to shoot and waiting until 8 yards away seems to prove that. That was intense. Does anyone know what rifle and caliber he was using.

Prewar Thanks for the heads up on the video.I really enjoyed it.No doubt about it...that bear had to be taken out.No second place winners in a charge.My hats off to all those brave men!
Flirting with disaster aint for everybody!
I wondered about the rifle as well,it looked like a winchester or A-square rifle to me at lest 375H&H with that heavy barrel....Maybe someone knows for sure.He really handled the charge well,i think anyone going after bear should watch this video.......awsome!

Prewar 70,
The rifle is a Model 70 Pre-64 Action chambered in a 404 Barnes-Johnson Express.The 404 B-J Express load used is a .411 caliber with the old original 400 gr. Barnes bullets with 74.0 grs of IMR 4064, pushed at approx 2400 fps. Currently, he is testing North Fork & Swift A-Frame bullets as his supply of old Barnes has dwindled down to less than a dozen rounds.

I was thinking it looked like a pre 64 model 70 and I would have guessed a 458 but it didn't have the SuperGrade stock. I have not heard of the 404 B-J Express but it was certainly a charge stopper. 400 grainers at 2400 fps will do that. I don't think he could go wrong with either the NF or Swifts, both with hold together.

Which show is it?--the list of shows are rather long.

Casey

That bear was not "stopped" By the shot.. Thats is an very good example.. that even a 400 grain bullet at 2400FPS not stop a bear when you hit it in the body.. If the bear had keept going it would have take the man down. The only way to get a big game animal (like this bear) down at once, you have to hit in the spine/brain/maybe the head.. if the bullet dont hit the head and only the skull with a big rifle the bear will may´be go down at once!?
//Overkill

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:
That bear was not "stopped" By the shot.. Thats is an very good example.. that even a 400 grain bullet at 2400FPS not stop a bear when you hit it in the body.. If the bear had keept going it would have take the man down. The only way to get a big game animal (like this bear) down at once, you have to hit in the spine/brain/maybe the head.. if the bullet dont hit the head and only the skull with a big rifle the bear will may´be go down at once!?
//Overkill

Is that you
Somebody who know?

quote:

Originally posted by CaseyC:
Which show is it?--the list of shows are rather long.

Casey

It was the moose/bear combo hunt

Very intense!!

That was wild. I doubt I would have let it get that close before shooting.

I thought the guide was a F... idiot. He had plenty of time to put a shot infront of it which would have made it turn and run. It was a situation totally cocked up which ended up with shooting the mother - totally unnecessary.

Not only would I not have let it get that close but I also don't fire warning shots.

Warning shots sure.

Best case He fired warning shot best case bear runs away.

Worse cases gun jams after first shot guide gets chomped.

Bear does not run aways comes faster guide does not get 2nd round off guide gets chomped.

Guide misses with 2nd shot no time for a 3rd guide get chomped.

2nd shot does not stop guide does not have time for 3rd shot guide gets chomped.

Nope no warnings shot here shoot to stop the charge.

He was waving and yelling, that is much more effective than a warning shot, it at least identifies you as a human. He did everything right, just worked out different then everyone would have planned it.

I agree with rmiller and p dog . I,ve wasted far too much ammo on warning shots..If you have to shoot and root around ,the bear will probably come back at a more opertune time for it self,. Like when your amrpit deep in guts or just getting your pack on. They get close enough just kill them. I little trick, Sometimes if it works out,you can shoot 1 of twin or triplicate cubs infront of the sow and so far she has always taken her remaining cub and left. It is heart rending to do but it will teach her and the cub to do what 4 legged predators are supposed to do !! FEAR MAN !! T

reddy375 ----- Have you ever been up close and personal with a Brown Bear in a hunting situation. Good shooting.

Guide went the extra step by waiting so long to shoot the sow and is lucky that she didn't maul him after the shot. She was still capable of doing some damage after the shot. I like his attitude about having to shoot the sow, a good guide and man.

NO, but I have shot 4 leopards and sloth bear (not as large but every bit as dangerous as a brown bear if they get to grips with you) without a PH or any backup + hunted ele, leopard, buff, hippo, croc in Africa with a PH + tons of other game. So I do know a little bit about hunting...

I just saw the video again and the client could easily have fired a shot in the air, instead of saying "the sow is moving towards us joe". He was cleary an inexperienced hunter. In the video it looked like there was another hunter, you can see a gun come out from the right side and then quickly dissapear.

At the end of the day I wasn't there it just seemed like a situation that could have been avoided. Even though these things happen, it's a real shame to shoot a sow with cubs.AMEN.

quote:

NO, but I have shot 4 leopards and sloth bear (not as large but every bit as dangerous as a brown bear if they get to grips with you) without a PH or any backup + hunted

Comparing a Sloth "honey" bear to an Alaskan Brown analogy IMO is like comparing a Lynx to a Tiger. I think the AK Brown Bear will get more votes on this forum as being more dangerous. I may be wrong but I would go to the bank to take out a loan to cover all bets!!!!

BTW there was another guide with a gun. James was backing up Charles with a 12 Gauge shotgun if needed.

SEVERAL YEARS ago I came across a black bear on a dead moose during Ontario Moose season. It didn't want to share and decided to make his displeasure known to me. It wasn't a big one and if truth be known I might have outweighed it as it looked in the 200# range maybe 250 on a good day. (kinda hard to tell on bears)
Anyway with a woof and some jaw pops he closed the distance from about 100feet. Not a flat out hard charge with ears laid back and whites of eyes showing but a heads up charge stop charge stop. Happened to have my favorite rifle in my hands, A Win .375H&H with Silvertips in it. I mentally drew a line on the ground where if Yogi stepped over it I planned on sending him to the big picnic basket in the sky.
He didn't and I didn't but even a run from a small one can get your blood flowing fairly well.
I talked to it in what I hoped were soothing tones about how he didn't want to come after me and I didn't want to shoot him, Didn't yell at him or wave wildly. He saw the logic of my argument and allowed me to exit without further excitement and so he could get back to his dinner.

IT also helped him that we had no bear tags in camp.

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
I thought the guide was a F... idiot. He had plenty of time to put a shot infront of it which would have made it turn and run.

Maybe, maybe NOT!!

That is one hell of B.S. statement to make though, that's for sure.

Kind of like saying all you have to do if a croc grabs you is flip him over on his back, he'll pass out.

My theory on bears is if they pass a certain point negotiations are over. Period.

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
I thought the guide was a F... idiot. He had plenty of time to put a shot infront of it which would have made it turn and run.

Says who? That statement is the best example I've seen in years regarding FAITH or HOPE! The sow had already JUST heard two other shots and kept coming in to see what was up. I don't believe for a minute that another shot with some dirt flying up in her face would have turned her around for one second.

I hunted with a guy in Canada that put FOUR warning shots in front of a sow with cubs that was heading his way. She wasn't distracted in the least.

I've killed a few bears and I've seen what some bears do when one of their 'buddies' is shot...nothing. No disrespect intended to you or anyone but IMO, the only F'n idiot is the one that would attempt a warning shot in the scenario I watched.

You are right though, the shooting of a sow with a cub is unthinkable, and it should be avoided at all costs. However, a human life is worth much more than a sow and cub. The sow showed that she was commited to that charge as she sped up the closer she got. I just don't think a shot in the sand would have done anything, sorry.

Warning shots are a waste of time, a reduction in your capability for killing and generally have no affect on Bears. I had an incident this past spring while hunting brown bear on the Alaska Peninsula about 30 miles from wear Snackwell was eaten, where a 9 ft sow with two 7 ft 2 year old cubs approached our camp with the troublesome duo leading the way. She made many efforts to call the cubs back and yet they kept coming with juvenile persistence to find out what we were. At 60 yards I advised my partner to put a shot in the beach just in front of the sow in hopes she might get spooked and bark the cubs back to her and take off. I can tell you that the 375 H&H went off and launched a 300 grain TSX just to her right and about 3 ft in front of her , blasted her face with sand and it did not affect her not one little bit, she just stood there on all 4 's looking at us. The cubs kept coming, and all of sudden the wind switched from in our faces to where I could feel it blowing on the back of my neck and within seconds they had us with their noses and all 3 were gone. The boom of a gun is not something they are familiar with most of the time so it may as well be a thunderstorm to them. Save your shells for when you need em, this was a situation where we had 3 guns on the bears if they kept coming so it was worth a shot to see how they would react.

My experience with warning shot is different. In twenty years of living on the peninsula I have probably felt it necessary to shoot warning shots an average of two to three times every year. Even bears that appeared un-fazed at least stopped or paused from doing what they were doing - which usually was advancing toward me. That to me shows that warning shots can be a valuable tool. During those twenty years only one bear refused to back down and continued to advance - but at least a lot slower. there were three of us, two with pislols and one with a 338 and all three fired at least twice with the bear less than thirty feet away when we started and under twenty feet when we backed off. I would have at least thought his ears would have been ringing. When we finally backed up he decided to veer around us. It simply appeared he did not want to loose face.
I still highly recommend warning shots. Bears are too valuable a creature to needlessly kill.

I agree with you Phil. Let me rephrase what I said. The only time that things get hairy and decisions made like warning shots had better be good ones is when your dealing with sows and cubs. I have had stand offs at close range with single bears while bowhunting them where appropriate controlled actions revealed appropriate responses but mom and kids is never fun, nor predictable.

Estrogen complicates lots of things.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Bears are too valuable a creature to needlessly kill.

I agree 100%, but I'm still not convinced that in this scenario in this video, a warning shot would have changed the sow's course of action.

I agree Doc, that sow would have gotten shot by me too.

I really couldn't tell how close she really was or read her intentions from the video - also couldn't see her at the last few seconds. I'm certainly not going to say the guide did anything wrong and he certainly appeared to be doing a lot of things right.

I don't know how it counts for warning shots but we use up a lot of canister type marine signal horns every year here on Afognak. So far, they continue to prove effective but these bears around the hatchery are pretty well fed and pretty mellow.

It does seem like most of the effect occurs with short uneven blasts that startles the bear and makes it unsure of its superiority. The few times I've had mommas come at me and I've layed on the horn continuously, they appeared to get the initial startle and then quickly become accustomed to the noise and it just wastes the canister. Since then, I try to get the bear to pause with the horn, keep it "off balance" with a burst now and then and back out of there slowly.

That would deffinatly be an "ass puckering experiance"!

quote:

I just saw the video again and the client could easily have fired a shot in the air, instead of saying "the sow is moving towards us joe". He was cleary an inexperienced hunter. In the video it looked like there was another hunter, you can see a gun come out from the right side and then quickly dissapear.

He just got done firing at the boar how many times it didnt stop the sow then what in hell would firing in the air have done besides wasting more bullets. What kind of experienced hunter starts shooting in the air in that situation, it would of been nothing more than a waste of time and caused more comotion for the guide. he did what needed to be done case closed.

Reddy if you are as experienced as you say you are hunting DG in africa, i would like to see you try out your shooting in the air idea on a chraging ele, buff, or anything for that matter. While you are busy shooting in the air hopefully for you your PH doesn't practice the same experienced hunting skills that you do, cuz if he does both your asses will be grass.

Warning shots are a waste of ammo, back in '93 i fired 10 warning shots at a sow grizzly in the Brooks while on a sheep hunt and it had zero affect. Her and her cubs ate my partners sheep and the nose off the cape. No big deal as all we wanted was for her to leave, her cubs did and she did not. After the cubs disappeared she came full on at us and we shot her at about 15 feet. The cubs were at least 2 year olds and almost as big as she was so I do believe they survived and hopefully they learned a valuable lesson about being around humans. That is an experience that will live with me forever, I did not want to shoot her but being over 50 miles from the nearest road and 5 days away from our air charter picking us up we hd no choice. I believe the guide did the right thing and had no choice in the matter.

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
I thought the guide was a F... idiot. He had plenty of time to put a shot infront of it which would have made it turn and run. It was a situation totally cocked up which ended up with shooting the mother - totally unnecessary.

Now folks the above quote is the voice of experience!

In the first place the 404 BJ EX is made on a full length 375 H&H case, blown out straight, then necked down for a .411 dia bullet. In a pre 64 mod 70 the magazine will only hold three. you don't want to waste too many rounds makeing holes in the sand. Anyone who has ever stood a detremined charge of a dangerous animal knows when the arm waveing is ineffective, your first shot better be in the boiler room, because at 8 yds, as in this cace, you will not get a second shot with a bolt action rifle. Even with a double rifle two is all you'll get, and they better count. He's just lucky the first one put her down, because that doesn't often happen, even at 8 yds., and that yearling cub, may want a piece of you butt as well, not to mention the other bear they just shot, and he was not really down, when the sow charged.

Anyone who knows Brown bear, knows that a sow chargeing being followed by a yearling cub is not going to stop, when she keeps coming after she knows you are a human. The Mark of a man who knows brown bear, was exibited by this guide, and he waited till he couldn't miss. Addtionally he had to conserve ammo, because of the big cub, and the boar they had just shot, and wasn't dead yet! So an attack could come from two fronts,evn with the sow down, and the client was useing a Browning 375 H&H which was dry, from shooting the other bear. If the guide runs dry as well, both men may be killed or at least mauled!

Monday morning quarter backing is easy sitting in front of a key board in your den!

The first time I watched the video, I thought that the sow was completely out of sight when the guide fired. However, if you watch closely at the very end of the video her head pops up on the top of that rise they are all standing on. You see her right as he fires and she turns. She was pretty close. Having never been in that situation, I cannot say what should've been done. Can't fault the guide if he did what he thought was best. I do know that it appeared that the hunter was sorta standing around with his thumb up his ass... methinks I would've been reloading my empty gun though.

Wow, Reddy that has to be the jack ass statement of the year. Your ignorance is beyond comprehension. To say that that situation is avoidable would mean you would have had to be there and had the same experience. Bears, especially ones that out weigh the largest african predator by a long shot, are arguably the most unpredictable animal I have ever encountered. Most guides I've talked to will say the same thing. I had a 200# black bear follow me and charge agian after scaring him with a warning shot the first time. Any PH in Africa that lays out warning shots at "ele" or lions, leopards, etc, under 20yds is either inexperienced or a tool. Good luck in life with that attitude. I have heard only good things about Mr. Allen and his outfit, and the guiding community in Alaska has a lot of respect for him. The situation was sad, but he did the right thing. You might want to look up a little thing called the sympathetic nervous system in your obvious mounds of spare time. Ya, the first thing that would come to my mind would be warning shot when an 800# predator comes rushing at me teeth popping. Give me a break, genius. The fact that you actually had to think about these statements as you typed them gives you absolutely no excuse. Back me up any day Mr. Allen, any day.