Bad weather in AK now had a plane wreck yesterday in Illiamna with fatalities. Talked to some bush pilots and said the DHC-3 turbine otter was way over gross and clipped a tree on takeoff. I am supposed to have flown yesterday in a float plane so needless to say when that hit the news some major concern by friends an relatives. Not looking very good today, so quite a learning experience seeing your hunt dwindle in days sitting in a hotel. Not fun.

Hopefully the weather will let up enough to get us in camp and get the party started. Don't want to end up like those other guys though....

To be continued.......

Patience is a virtue where you are.

Keep positive thoughts gunslinger. Good luck again and keep us informed.

I don't know Jake, but I'm sure he's vetted his pilots.

We've had way too many crashes this year - most preventable. Don't run out of gas, don't try to fly over gross or out of C/G, don't fly into cumulo-granite, etc, etc.

The state has a program which encourages passengers to get involved with the pilot's flight decision. As a pilot, that rubs me the wrong way, but professionally it should make you up your game. Too many butt-heads up here have killed themselves and their passengers.

Look the pilot in the eye and ask him/her if he's confident in the load and the weather. If he gets pissed off - forget it.

Most are superb craftsmen in their profession. Very sad to hear about the Otter and the poor folks.

Have a great hunt. This place is the best.

Yeah the flying part was a bit of a problem with the weather. Good learning experience. On the way out there were high winds which almost prevented pickup before next storm. Pilot was a bit puckered and slammed it on fish lake.

Yeah I love AK just terrible weather and hunting in mid-late Sept. I wouldn't mind getting a small place up there to summer and get out of the heat

I flown with and are friends with some commercial and private pilots all them are very safety minded.

This thread makes me wonder about others

I have been a commercial pilot and flight instructor for over 40 years and while you can learn to fly in two weeks, learning when not to fly is ever ongoing.
I say this while sitting in main camp with winds over 60 mph and forcast to get stronger and clients and guides stuck in King Salmon and a pilot and guides stuck on Kodiak and everyone hoping to be elsewhere.

A word of advice to hunters is if your pilot is hesitant, don't push them.

Yeah I agree and I'm a Pilot as well. Was dismayed when the 206 had right yolk removed due to grab happy photo tourists. I agree you should not push the bush pilots but both the client and pilot want to go. The pilots to pay for their planes and the client because he's burning $1-2K dollars a day. I felt the pressure.

As this was my first guided Alaskan hunt I find it interesting (and a huge learning experience) that the norm is that the client assumes all the risk. IE pays all cash up front and no matter the outcome (even if he never gets in the field and pays for hotel etc on top)and never see's the intended quarry etc., and "that's how it's done" and tough bananas. Being a highly weather dependent hunt mainly due to the use of aircraft this can impose real issues. Even when we tried to move locations to try and salvage a few days and it was a no go due to winds.

Now I am looking at going on another hunt to use my 2 tags before they expire. Hope I can manage it hard for a working guy to swing it and get the time off, but I will try

Heard more on this from apparently taking off in dark and clipped tree. No fish is worth that!

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Bad weather in AK now had a plane wreck yesterday in Illiamna with fatalities. Talked to some bush pilots and said the DHC-3 turbine otter was way over gross and clipped a tree on takeoff. I am supposed to have flown yesterday in a float plane so needless to say when that hit the news some major concern by friends an relatives. Not looking very good today, so quite a learning experience seeing your hunt dwindle in days sitting in a hotel. Not fun.

Hopefully the weather will let up enough to get us in camp and get the party started. Don't want to end up like those other guys though....

To be continued.......

Been a bad summer for small planes. Here's what the NTSB has said this week:

http://www.adn.com/article/201...-plane-crash-iliamna

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Yeah I agree and I'm a Pilot as well. Was dismayed when the 206 had right yolk removed due to grab happy photo tourists. I agree you should not push the bush pilots but both the client and pilot want to go. The pilots to pay for their planes and the client because he's burning $1-2K dollars a day. I felt the pressure.

As this was my first guided Alaskan hunt I find it interesting (and a huge learning experience) that the norm is that the client assumes all the risk. IE pays all cash up front and no matter the outcome (even if he never gets in the field and pays for hotel etc on top)and never see's the intended quarry etc., and "that's how it's done" and tough bananas. Being a highly weather dependent hunt mainly due to the use of aircraft this can impose real issues. Even when we tried to move locations to try and salvage a few days and it was a no go due to winds.

Now I am looking at going on another hunt to use my 2 tags before they expire. Hope I can manage it hard for a working guy to swing it and get the time off, but I will try

gunslinger, Alaska weather is always a concern but certainly you are not suggesting that pilots or outfitters bear any blame for it ? It is like all hunting, there are situations and conditions that no one can control and hunters are simply buying the time and expertise of their guides and pilots --- and trusting their best judgement.
You can't blame pilots or guides for a poor outcome any more than you can blame an MD for not getting well.

Phil I am not directly blaming anybody but as a longtime pilot myself I have seen sequences of events that lead to bad decision making, which in turn can lead to other problems which can lead to getting pilots "into the red" and bent airplanes. Until the final NTSB report on this crash its all in play. we do the same things at airlines only its bigger news when that happens. Lodges operating under part 91 is way different than part 121 ops. You can't deny smaller operators are under pressure to deliver? Heck I've been there and done that back in the day. This has clouded many a judgment, and also when things go bad you got way less options in a single engine at night heavily loaded float plane flying VFR.(you know that) Just flying at night single engine is hazardous. But it is no secret there is a lot of "boo boos" in Alaska flying. Way back I was an intern at the NTSB in Denver and saw some really bad stuff in the rockies. A lot depends on whether the prop was getting power at time of impact. Either way a bad deal. But for sure 100% I know the "boss" sitting on the ground can influence the (sometimes young time building) pilot who can be easily replaced into doing things to make sure the $$ bottom line is to the bosses liking. It happens at major airlines too! In a perfect world safety should be the most important thing, and I hope most still see it this way, but unfortunately money has a way of overriding that. The famous "scud running" a common example (VFR into IMC with mountainous terrain)

On rereading the "quote" Phil are you referring to the flying and plane crash or the fact that weather can impact a hunt? On the latter my only comment was since you are "all in" financially at the beginning of a hunt weather can cause pressure for both operator and client, although I agree if the client is paid in advance there will be less pressure on the guide (or outfitter), but the guides (or outfitter) usually(?) contract with a 3rd party air taxi who otherwise without flying would not get paid. It is a judgment call and safety should be the first concern

Gunslinger, we are all subject to pressures from many angles and it's human nature to think we can get away with "bending" or pressing our personal limits.
And I say this while sitting in camp with clients stuck in town and 60mph winds howling outside and our Supercub and Producer literally flying on their tiedown ropes.

Well flying a supercub in 60 MPH winds is pretty much impossible so that would eliminate most poor decisions to fly. I'm sure you as an outfitter feel some pressure as the season slips by? And I'm sure your clients do as well.....? It's all part of the Alaska deal and It's just really crappy weather this fall

We have Rainbow King and numerous other lodges operating in our bay daily, the weather(visibility) they fly in has to be seen to be believed. A good friend lives on Eastwind Lake (RK operates on his property) has told me a couple times this summer how they load the Otter to the gills with gas,fuel, and people and always take off in the same direction. I was talking with an X RK pilot the other day at Fog Lake and he said he quit because of the pressure to take off in the pitch dark and said there were hills all around the departure area creating a black hole with no horizon for reference. The day of the crash we got a call informing us at 6:45 and with the overcast it was absolute pitch black outside, we could barely see the outline of the bay.
The race to The Rock at Talarik Creek has claimed a few early am operators too.

Exactly what I was saying..........Been there

As a pilot I don't mind questions from passengers, paying or otherwise. There is a limit, though, when you become a psychologist and a pilot.

I'm very ok with questions like "are you comfortable with this mission/situation?"

As I pilot I don't expect the Pax to question my judgment. That's my job to get them where they want to go safely. Unfortunately due too "incidents" that hit the news suddenly passengers think they are the experts, or at least express concerns.......Rightly so at times. Not like the "good old days"......But I digress....