For several years i used 210gr Noslers in my 338 for everything here in alaska except bear due to the better velocity and flatter trajectory for longer shots that one might expect on caribou or moose. For bear, i used a 275gr roundnose with decent ballistics but much slower than the 210gr loads, expecting to shoot 150 yards or less. When I was collecting gear for a moose hunt last year, i found that my son had copped all of my 210's and i was left with the heavy roundnose. Long story short, i took a pretty good bull at maybe 85 yards, same shot i always take of heart/lungs. He went down without taking a step... dead, no quiver, not blowing blood. Later, a couple of caribou did about the same thing, 2-3 steps, head drop, and down. My impression was that even with a little less energy, the slower rn loads killed a lot cleaner. Has anyone else had that experience? Opinions are welcome...........

I have had the same experience here in Wyoming on Elk.
I use the 210 Nosler in my 338-06 most of the time. It's quite effective, but I did use a Speer 275 on one bull that was going away from me at about 165 yds. I hit him about center and the bullet came out the front of his chest.
He dropped like he was brain shot.
I also gave some of these loads to a friend that shoots a 338-06 (which I made) and he killed 2 bulls with them. He said the same thing. They killed VERY well. Better than He (or I ) expected, and none of the shots were through major bone. The really bad part of all this is that Speer doesn't make the bullets anymore!

grape creek look and see if Woodleigh makes a 275 grainer. I know they used to make a 310 grain 338 bullet. I am from the heavy and moderate velocity camp. Prefer diameter and weight over speed and light.

Velocity is a lot more important to the shooter than it is to the animal.

Buchsenschmeid.... The speer 275 gr rn is the very bullet i was referring to. Pity speer stopped production as i only have a handful of loaded rounds left. I wonder where to go for something similar ??

Ray, have you had any accuracy problems with the failsafe ?
You have several boxes of the 250 A-frame... Do you like them that well? Have you tried the Partition Gold yet ?? Do you know someone who has ?? Thanks

I am not an expert by any means, but I can tell you about my experiences using 230-grain Fail Safe bullets, 250-grain NOS Partition, and 250-grain A-Frame. I believe that you can drive a tough bullet such as the FS very fast, and kill with it just as dead as a slower/heavier/softer one such as a NOS of similar weight. I also believe that for game such as moose or bears at closer range, lets say...within 150 yards, the nose of softer bullets can often disintegrate if driven too fast. It does not mean that they won't kill just as well as tougher bullets, but at least with bears I would prefer the tougher ones, or at least the heaviest per caliber bullet. The heavier bullets can't be driven as fast, which in turn should slightly retard expansion and provide deeper penetration.

I have shot several moose that have dropped on the spot (or very close to it), some as close as 100 yards, but most at 250 or so. The bullet I have used the most is the 230-grain FS. A couple of years ago, I shot a moose at 250 yards (or so) with a 250-grain A-Frame, and the result was as impressive as the ones killed with FS bullets, except that I have only recovered one FS, and also that 250-grain A-Frame shot with the A-Frame.

I just shot another moose a day ago, and used a Federal 250-grain NOS HE. The moose took a step or two, then dropped on the side dead. Now, I was very surprised of the extensive damage this bullet caused, since this moose was at least 300 yards away. I imagine that a portion of the nose broke apart when it hit the shoulder bones, but it did its work. However, I would feel much better with a NOS Partition Gold, or even a 230-grain FS if the target was a bear at close range. For a lung shot, I bet that a 250-grain Partition would do tremendous lung/heart damage to any bear. For me at least, as the game gets bigger and meaner, I prefer heavy per caliber bullets.

Two things are needed to kill any animal. Bullet placement and penetration. If you don't have either you have a wounded animal. Given equal construction heavy bullets open more and/or penetrate deeper. All you need to do is stalk up close enough and put it in the correct place.
I've learned that two holes bleed faster than one so prefer complete penetration but expansion doesn't hurt. If your bullet gives complete penetration; whether it's a .210 Nosler, 230 FS, 250 Swift or 275 Woodleigh, I see no need to change.
If you are looking to change Kodiak makes a bonded core 275 grain right here in Alaska that opens up wide, holds togeather and penetrates forever.

The Kodiaks are nice, but like any other bonded bullet that is not reinforced in some way, they are not to fond of high velocity.

Same with Woodleighs, Norma Oryx,Star(if they are around anymore) and a bunch of others. In my opinion they give the best results in caliber and bullet combo's that do not give more than 27-2800f/s. Higher than that they seem to expand to far giving up some penetration.

For Big Game I will always want a bonded bullet with some kind of reinforcement like SAF,TBBC, Rhino or my new favorite North Fork bullets.

I have now tried these bullets in more than 10 guns and I have never gotten such precision ever using a premium bonded bullet.

When using a 250North Fork in my 9,3x62 it shoots 3 shot groups in the .3"s if I do my part. I shot better than 1/2moa in my 300Win and less than 1 Moa in my 375Wea, using 270's or 300's.And I'm sure if I wasn't influenced by recoil I would shoot them much better than that. I always have a shot that I know slipped away a little bit. Hence the 1" groups not 1/2"

If you like an easy expanding and very penetrating and very precise bullet you should give the North Forks a try.
www.northforkbullets.com

By the way: Have anyone noticed that the new TBBC from Speer is more brittle than they used to be ?? I have had 55grs bullets disintergrate in wet paper coming out of a 22-250. And what used to be such a great bullet, before they tampered with it....

Sauer:
I definitely second the Northforks too.
Bear in Fairbanks

We're both obvisly smart guys

If I just could find a company that would be able to OEM manufacture some ammo for us now, we could offer these superb bullets to the not reloading public.

The question of slow heavy bullets verses fast light bullets has been around since eternity. As long as you use a resonable projectile and place it were it's suppose to go, it doesn't matter. It only matters in the shooters head.

The animal will never know.

Thanks for the lead on the woodleigh and the swift. will give a look.
I used to believe in fast and destructive, but have seen too many thin-skinned still alive after having an off-side shoulder blown away. I'm not so sure any more. Am going to give the slow heavies a season or two to check things out. The animal may not know the difference.... but i do .... and it matters to me.

Well...it all depends on the game one hunts. For example, if I was going to shoot an elephant through the skull to hit the brain, I would prefer bullet integrity with any speed or bullet weight.

A relatively soft bullet that is designed to expand fast, may not always reach the vitals or break bone when fired fast and close. In other words, some may shed the entire nose upon impact when shot fast and close, so if I was hunting the big bears, I would be a little worried about that fact. That's why it's not a bad idea to use the heaviest bullet available when hunting the big bears with a .30-06, or even the .300WM and .338WM.

Yes, shot placement always counts, but the bullet must do its work once it reaches the vitals. Penetration is a big issue.

I don't think it's really that simple. I'll take a 270 Winchester over 500 Jeffery any day for sheep or goat hunting. But... I'd rather have the 500 Jeffery over the 270 when hunting brown bears.

Those are kind of the two extremes, but a 338 Win Mag is lighter and faster than a 45/70, and I'd choose the 338 everytime for anything in here in Alaska over the 45/70.