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I need to work up a load in my 458 lott for Alaskan use, and have been pondering the best bullet weight. It seems to me that a 400 gr @ 2400 fps would have enough weight to make it through moose and bears, yet the recoil wouldn't be so brutal to disuade me from prone shots. I've shot enough of the 500 gr loads to know better then even trying such a move. I've shot a bunch of the 350 speers at 2400-2500, and they work well on paper, but it seems that Northfork or Barnes 400 at the same speed would be even better. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | ||
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My vote, NF 400gr SP. Hog Killer IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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Paul I just bought some 350 Barnes X and 400 grain Trophy Bonded Bearclaws that I will be trying in my 458 Win Mag. I believe both will be suitable for my needs. I should be able to get 2350 from the Bearclaws, maybe even a bit more. I know that the 350 Barnes will reach 2400 quite easily. Complete penetration with either will happen. Allen Glore "Annoy a Liberal, work, succeed, be happy" | |||
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Over the years I have settled on the 400 grain bullet as the best for Alaska's biggest game with the .458 Win and the Lott. For years the Barnes 400 gr X was my favorite (slightly) but as they have discontinued them I now favor the North Forks and the Kodiaks. Ijust picked up a few boxes of Swifts also and expect they will be a good and any. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Woodleigh also make a 400 gr protected point bullet wit ha higher bc that might be worth a look. | |||
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I looked at the hornady manual and they show there 350 RN up to 2700 fps. in the Lott Is this bullet constructed well enough for the big bears? | |||
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Tanoose, There is a currrent thread on the big bore forum on the 350gr Hornady RN. Hog Killer IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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Not in my mind!!   | |||
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I would expect at 2700 fps, it would be absolutely devestating on a lung shot. I would not use it for a shoulder shot at that speed. I personally wouldn't use that bullet over 2400 fps, it's also much friendlier on the shoulder at those speeds. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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Given the choice of a 400 grain bullet at 2400 fps or a 500 grain load at 2200-2300 fps, I would choose the latter without a doubt. I would load with Barnes solids on bear or if hunting anything in bear country. In the Lott, one can afford to give up the powder space occupied by the longer Barnes bullets and this is especially true when only trying to get 2200-2300 fps out of it. This combo will kill well on broadside shots as heavily bleeding exit wounds are a guarantee and provides the penetration, via higher sectional density and moderate velocity, that may help on a follow up shot directed at a fleeing bear or moose. JMHO, JohnTheGreek | |||
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That new Barnes 450gr banded solid sure looks interesting... The flat-nose and monolithic design would have to give you end to end penetration on just about any bear regardless of angle. If you're a bit turned-off by the Lott's recoil just soften it up a bit and drive it at about 2150-2200 fps and I bet you'd get incredible performance out of it. Nothing says all Lott loadings have to be at 2300-2400 fps all the time. From what I've heard some of the most successful and famous dangerous game cartridges of all time operated with 500gr bullets at 2150fps. .22 LR Ruger M77/22 30-06 Ruger M77/MkII .375 H&H Ruger RSM | |||
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I beg to differ on the thought of 500 gr's for bears, and especially the mention of solids. Bears are big and tough, but they aren't elephants. From the research I've done, a bonded or mono-metal expanding 400 gr .458" bullet will be a consistant performer on the biggest of bears, wheter broadside or quartering. If you're already getting exits with a 400, then going to a 500 at less velocity, or worse yet a solid, will result in a smaller dia wound channel. I've also fired quite a few 500 gr bullets out of my 458 Lott, and from 2100-2300 fps, recoil is on the same level. That level of recoil is such that it is for off hand use only, it simply recoils too much for prone or sitting shots. I find the 400 gr bullets have sufficiently reduced recoil that they can be fired from any position and recoil can be ignored, or rather yet dealt with. While I can't see taking a shot at an unwounded bear at 250 yds, I can see the benefit of a gun that shoots flat enough for shots out that far, and the original post wasn't limited to use on bears. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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Black bear, grizzly bear, or coastal brown bear? H. C. | |||
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Paul, I am just a big fan of guaranteed exit wounds from ALL angles. One may get it with the 400 grain .458 premium soft bullet on a "Texas heart shot" on a fleeing big bear or maybe not. May reach the vitals or may not depending on the bone it hits. A heavier bullet at more moderate velocity guarantees it reaching the vitals in a straighter path and exiting. I like that! I have been surprised myself a time or two with premium .416 diameter 400grn X bullets that didn't exit on big or even medium game. Traveling at 2400 fps these bullets should arguably penetrate better than a 400 grain .458 at 2400. One example is a Bushbuck I shot in Zimbabwe. He was absolutely huge and standing in open country so I took the shot offered and hit the relatively small animal in the hip. The 400 grain .416 bullet made the vitals but only barely! In a larger animal like an eland, sable or bear, the bullet would have been a complete failure without any doubt. If the angle is steep enough or straight on from the back or front on a big bear, a .458 x-bullet at 2400 might not, respectively, make it anywhere near the vitals or may not exit the back end of the animal. I would just hate to see a big ol' bar and not get him because my bullet didn't make the vitals or he didn't bleed enough. JMHO, JohnTheGreek | |||
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Paul, Swift is coming out with a 350 gr A-frame that might be worth a look. | |||
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The Hornady 350 gr. RN is one of my favorite bullets in the .458 bore. I have used it in the 45/70, 458 Win, and in my 450 No2 double rifle at @2330fps. I have killed several deer and pigs with it. I would use it for black bear. I would not use it for brown bear at speeds over 2000fps. I would use a premium bullet of 400 grains or up on brown bear in the 458 Win. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I do believe you are on the correct track with the 400 grain bullets. I used to shoot 500 grain slugs out of my 450 Ackley and even with a brake on it it dang near killed me. Going to the 400 grain slugs made a noticeable difference. I would even consider working up a load with the 350's just to see how they perform. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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The problem you will have with 300 to 400 grain bullets is what velocity range where they designed, Since 45-70 's are owned by more people many of the lighter bullet are designed for the lower velocities, meaning they will expand to quick or in other words penetration will be less than desirables. Tbe bullet design should pretty much tell you what they ae for, flat nose probably the 45-70. The speer 350 grain was specically designed for 458WM velocity and what I have read act like solids at 1500 FPS or less, I would think if they are spire or spitzer design that pretty much eliminates the 45-70 sinse most are levers and require large metplates. I was able to buy a bunch of discontinued Barnes 458 450 grn ssp originals which shoot great in my 458wm, I did split one open to check jacket thickness and it was less than Hornady 500 grainers but much thicker than all the 350's I looked at except the speer 350 which was similar. I have never shot or split open any of the woodleighs or NorthFok so I cannot comment om those NRA Life Member, ILL Rifle Assoc Life Member, Navy | |||
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Your best bet would be the 350gr. barnes x.It has a BC of .4+. Load them to a reasonably high velocity. You will then have decent trajectory for moose, caribou, black bear. You will also have a high probability of a one shot knockdown at grizzly- brown bear range. Recoil should be reasonable with the 350. I always look for high BC when possible, helps to make the longer shots. | |||
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Paul, I've said it here before but I agree with longshots the 350x worked very well for me when I lived in Alaska. I was shooting it in the 458WM and it was super. Perhaps in the Lott the 400 would be the best bet. I believe that was Phil's suggestion. Regards, Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Sir I prefer the 350 grain for moose and black bear. I use a Hard Cast FNGC bullet cast hard...at 2000 FPS in my Marlin GG in 45-70. Jeff North Pole, Alaska Red Team 98 | |||
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I have some friends that really like the 720gr WFNGC bullets both out of the 458 Lott and the Win Mag .Great grouping at 100 yards . If the picture shows up ( not sure if I did it right )the shells are not for the Win Mag or the Lott . They are for my Sharps. Enjoy  RR  Practice does not make perfect !!!!!!Perfect practice makes perfect!!!!!!!!!!!! HOME OF THE FAMOUS 500 MAGNUM TYRANNOSAURUS THUMPERS | |||
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ranger rick - are these bullets available here in Alaska / does someone cast them in Homer? Thanks for any info - KMule Hear and forget. See and remember. Do and understand. | |||
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Kmule Check your PM. RR Practice does not make perfect !!!!!!Perfect practice makes perfect!!!!!!!!!!!! HOME OF THE FAMOUS 500 MAGNUM TYRANNOSAURUS THUMPERS | |||
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Ranger Rick, Welcome to the forum! So far the only mold I have for my 458 Lott is a 500 gr Lyman, and I plan to re-cut the nose to produce a meplat, which should also increase the weight a tad. 720 gr sounds like almost too much a good thing, how much velocity are folks getting out of the Lott 1700-1800 fps? I'd imagine in a barrel with a fast enough twist to stabalize that bullet, penetration would be unbelievable __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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400 grain... .. work's best in 45/70 ... 458 win mag ...458 lott it's just a better all around bullet weight . | |||
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Paul: What rifle do you have your .458 Lott in? Is there any reason to think that a .460 Wby shooting a 400 grain bullet at about 2500 fps would behave much different that the .458 Lott? Thank you for the information. Robert Jobson | |||
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My lott was built by fitting a Ruger #1h 458 win mag barrel to a VZ-24 mauser. The smith lopped 2" off the breach, to get rid of the rear 1/4 rib holes that are deeply drilled in the barrel and hence over the chamber. No reason a 460 Weatherby wouldn't work as well. As my tag line says, big guns can be loaded down to little gun levels. You might want to post on the handloading forum to see if anyone has suggested loads for doing so. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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2 cents.... I have loaded three different 400grain bullets (.458 Lott) developing a load for a bear hunt this june. All have been tested on differing mediums including deer. 405 gr remingtons at 2100 fps = too frangible (nice deer gutter though) 400 grain barnes original, 2250fps = decent penetration but still too much expansion after about 8 inches of penetration (flesh and light bone) 400 grain woodleighs PP, 2300fps = Holds together much, much better, good accuracy and penetration. This is the one.  If you are going over 2300fps you probably need an even tougher bullet. I would feel comfortable shooting anything with this round I don't have to fly over water to get to. I'll let you know how it works out. | |||
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Martinpotts, I don’t get your post. I offered what I had done with my lott involving 400gr bullets. No shit 405’s are for low velocity, Barnes….whatever, Woodleigh …whatever. The bullet and load I recommended is adequate (more than) what the originator of the thread was looking for. A Lott load for bear that has reduced recoil. | |||
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Your --Thinned Skinned and can't take a joke 44 light up buddy | |||
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I'll admit to the thin skin this week......  | |||
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400 grain North Fork | |||
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North fork's are ok ... and i do like the new designed A Square's but i like mine better ...   | |||
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