I know how to judge live Black Bear to tell whether they are trophy size (small-looking ears on the side of the head, short-looking limbs, etc.), are the indicators of size similar in Brown Bear, or are there different things to look for?

Brown bears are similar to judging black bears in that the necks and limbs of the males are longer and the heads appear smaller in relationship to the body on the largest males.
In addition the front shoulders and forearms are heavier on males while females appear more tapered from front to rear.
The heads of males are longer and much blockier looking as well

a big one looks big - jack o'conners quote

I am not so good at size, but sex is easy, a gentle squeeze between the bears hind legs will clearly indicate whether it is a male or female.

Here's what Phil is talking about. It's early June so the boar is rubbed but you can see the difference in body proportions especially in regards to the head, neck and legs. A sows front legs will taper to her feet while the boars are more pillar-like. Notice the obvious blockiness of the face and shoulders of the boar in the second pic.

This boar is not particularly large, a good, mature, nine-foot plus shooter, but certainly not a 20year veteran.

There's only one word to describe this bear


SHOOT!!!




This guy is a TANK.

These two are a couple of three year olds. They're skinny, agile, flighty, have big, skinny, tapering heads in relation to their bodies, look almost like dogs and are fun to watch but that's about it.

I been fortunate enough to be at McNeil River on four different occassions. McNeil is the worlds best place to view brown bears, bar none. For example, I have one panormic photo that contains 38 bears within maybe a 100 yard stretch of the river (photo avaliable on request).
Lots of good tips here from others. But some of the most important traits are:

Triangle shaped head usually means a small bear
Long legs and rangy look, small bear.
Lack of neck, BIG bear
Big bears walk with a swaggle of sorts. It looks like they think they are the baddest around and usually they are right.

One instance at McNeil was very interesting last month. The biggest bear in the santuary is named Leo. When Leo was darted a couple of years ago he weighed 1,200 pounds and that was early summer. There is a spot at McNeil where only the big boys fish, and usually there is a collection of 5-7 boars that look like they are at least 9 foot bears. When Leo walked out to the group they parted like the Red Sea!
Point is, even though Leo was huge I never realized how huge until he stood next to other big bears.
It takes a lot of practice. Anyone can say the bear is big but it takes an expert to be able to say how big.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
I been fortunate enough to be at McNeil River on four different occassions. McNeil is the worlds best place to view brown bears, bar none. For example, I have one panormic photo that contains 38 bears within maybe a 100 yard stretch of the river (photo avaliable on request).
Lots of good tips here from others. But some of the most important traits are:

Triangle shaped head usually means a small bear
Long legs and rangy look, small bear.
Lack of neck, BIG bear
Big bears walk with a swaggle of sorts. It looks like they think they are the baddest around and usually they are right.

One instance at McNeil was very interesting last month. The biggest bear in the santuary is named Leo. When Leo was darted a couple of years ago he weighed 1,200 pounds and that was early summer. There is a spot at McNeil where only the big boys fish, and usually there is a collection of 5-7 boars that look like they are at least 9 foot bears. When Leo walked out to the group they parted like the Red Sea!
Point is, even though Leo was huge I never realized how huge until he stood next to other big bears.
It takes a lot of practice. Anyone can say the bear is big but it takes an expert to be able to say how big.

Pictures, pictures please!

quote:

Originally posted by PWS:
There's only one word to describe this bear


SHOOT!!!




This guy is a TANK.

would someone kindly paint a crosshair on the first shot shot placement, please? I think it would be educational.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Lots of good tips here from others. But some of the most important traits are:

Triangle shaped head usually means a small bear
Long legs and rangy look, small bear.
Lack of neck, BIG bear...

First point regarding triangular faces, yes, especially with females. You want to see a rounded, blocky face.

Second point, maybe, as there are plenty of nine foot shooter boars, especially in the spring, that will appear to have long legs. Too many sows will have short legs so don't just look for a low belly line.

Third point, NO! A big boar has a colossus of a neck!! A sows head looks like it's directly attached to the shoulders. A big boar will almost look like a tortise stretching out it's neck.

Dennis Harms's website has a good writeup on judging bears: http://www.alaskakodiakbearhun...om/kodiak_bears.html

Tony Russ also has some excellent information on the web: http://www.tonyruss.com/PageBo...HuntinginAlaska.html


Because the boar in the pic is perfectly broadside, the first shot should be placed tight behind the lighter colored, vertical rectangle of fur on the shoulder. There's a dark line running diagonally high left/low right at the top of the rectangle. Put a bullet just to the right end of that dark line (in the "armpit" you might say) and that boar will die quickly. Aim to break the shoulder only when it's in the path to the heart and lungs. Shoulders are NOT vital!

By lack of neck I meant the neck doesnt appear to be long. My mistake. Younger bears seem to have a long skinny neck, big bears look like a body builder, thick neck but it doesnt appear to be to long.

This is a great thread, great pics and explanation PWS.

Snowwolfe, yep! The bodybuilder analogy is perfect.

The best way to make a final judgement is to take into consideration a mulitude of factors and not pin the call on one. Observe porportional comparisons between body parts, look for that bulkiness squareness in the front end, note the color, length, and condition of the hair and claws*, pay close attention to behavior especially around other bears (Snowwolfe's Leo for example). Hal Waugh was spot on when he said that extensive practice is the only way to learn how to judge bears. Judge photos if you don't have access to bears, ask other hunters what tricks they use, read material on judging bears, and finally, recognize that even the best bear judge can't tell exactly what it is until it's on the ground. Don't let a few inches ruin a unique experience and incredible animal.


*Older males will generally be darker colored with a shorter, smoother appearing pelt. This coloration is true up until the "old age" when they've collected a lifetime of scars and thier hair starts to grizzle, especially around the neck and shoulders. By then, porportions and demeanor will definately indicated that it's not a cub. Big bears have little trouble staying warm so they rarely possess the long, luxuriant coats that young bears wear. Cubs typically have a blonde horse collar marking around thier necks.

Claw length and color can also point to age with long, ivory claws indicating that the animal has reached 8-10 years of age. This is not carved in stone however! Again, the main thing is to not make a determination based on one factor alone.


Finally, any adult male brown bear is an impressive beast. Anything over nine foot square and 26" skull is solidly above average and if he's got a great hide, there are FEW bear hunters that should pass up an animal of this class.

i had a 9'2" bear sealed at fish and game in kodiak this spring, with a 26 3/4" skull if i recal, he looked like a much bigger bear.
The bio that sealed him figured he was all done growing...so never assume that size is related to age. bears can be just like people, old and small or young and huge.

Outstanding photos Mike, Thanks for sharing them.

It takes a lot of looking at alive bears and dead ones to be come a good judge.

Not brown bears but I seen and heard of a lot of ground shinkage on black bears over the years.

Unless one has a change to study them a bit before the shot. In the right place a big bear can look small and a small bear can look big.

I tell you having been in on the killing of a couple 500lb black bears. When they are truely big they don't get smaller as you walk up to them.

I can just think about walking up to one twice that size.

One other thing both PWS and I forgot to mention is track and foot size. Even the huge bears often show ground shrinkage when you first walk up on them but if you pick up and look at the size of the front pad it will tell you if you judged correctly.

agree that tracks are a great way to get an idea what your dealing with...seems pretty consistant where i'm at that a 8" track is usually attached to about a 10' bear...but i've seen bigger tracks up to almost 11" across the front pad and i don't assume it was a 12 foot bear...

Damn I want to do this hunt!! Hope to within 3-4 yrs.
BB are such impressive creatures.

Great info, guys.

scotty, only the big ones are impressive...the rest are just bears. but a big one....uhg way cool.

quote:

Originally posted by Fourtyonesix:
scotty, only the big ones are impressive...the rest are just bears. but a big one....uhg way cool.

Indeed. And so that's what I'll be on the hunt for when my time and turn comes up for my BB hunt. We won't just hunt any ol' bear, but a genuine AK BAAER!!!

This hunt is on a very short list for me. 3 years, tops. Know a good outfit to vett during the interim? . J/K!

Your pics on AR are quite the testament to your BB knowledge.

lots of good BB outfitters in some great areas....i'd be honored to take another AR member out if it comes to that. but there are alot of great choices out there....

Scottyboy,

Jake sure showed me a "bear hunt of a lifetime" this past Aug. 4, 5, & 6. We hunted barely 2 days due to rain and saw 6 griz and 21 blacks. Got our black on Aug. 5 and our griz at 10:30am on Aug. 6. He surely knows his territory and his bears. Planning to take my son and son-in-law to hunt with him next Aug.

Bill E.