Hi Everyone .. Well I,m going to try to ask this question and not make anyone mad .... If , Say the 585 nYati is too big for genral Alaskan hunting... What would be too small and why or rather where is the cut off ..... This question arose from something Yale wrote, saying that his 7x57 AI would be good for sheep but too small for bear..Really.... But the 06 is ok ??? Can any one prove that the 06 kills say moose or elk any faster than the 260 Remington.. If the 308 is so good at killing Cape Buffalo , What about the 7-08 or the 6.5-08. I,m asking about real world hunting here where animals may be walking or there may be part of a bush obscureing a part of the animals anatomy. Or the light may be failing and the wind picking up , or some factor other than blue bird weather and posed animals. Considering that Trophy bulls usually arn,t shot in the head, Does any one have any data on how much time it takes an animal to expire from this cartridge or that . Thanks ,,, gumboot out.

I prefer to look at the whole question backwards. Ie, what type of wound channel do you want to create, and out to what range? If you want to be able to consistantly take out both shoulders of the biggest bear and leave a tunnel you can drive your fist clear through, then you'll likely want a 40 caliber or larger with a well constructed bullet driven fast.

If you're looking for a bullet piling up inside the hide of a caribou on a broadside shot, then you'll want something totatlly different.

Right or wrong, I lump the .260 through 30 caliber into the small bore class that with proper bullets will take all Alaskan game. There is a caveat that you can have either deep penetration or a decent wound channel but not both with these calibers. So long as one is aware of this limitation, and matches their bullets with suitable shot placement, they will work 100% of the time.

Now if one wants both deep penetration and wound channel, and doesn't want to have limitations on shot placement, the 338, 358 and 375 provide both, and in guns that generally don't have too much recoil or weigh too much.

The 40 caliber on up are really specialized rigs. If one is built light enough to be easily packed, recoil will be brutal. If weighted properly for shootability, the gun will have your arms dragging to the ground. I have both a 458 Lott and 500 Jeffrey, and while I thought they would be great all purpose rifles, they are simply too heavy for that task. I would still like to take a moose with the 500, but haven't had the chance.

I think when folks have less than desireable performance on game there are two typical responses. If a small bore was used, the gun will be blamed for having too little power. If a medium or big bore is used, then the blame will be on too much recoil to accurately place the shot. In reality failures are 95+% of the time based on poor shot placement. No matter how big or little the gun, you have to place the shot properly.

My idea of an all around gun is my Ruger all weather 350 rem mag. 225 @ 2700 is flat shooting and enough bullet to not limit me on shooting angles. At a bit over 7#'s it is a manageble weight to carry. I'm also looking at building a lightweight 25-284 for blacktail hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
Hi Everyone .. Well I,m going to try to ask this question and not make anyone mad .... If , Say the 585 nYati is too big for genral Alaskan hunting... What would be too small and why or rather where is the cut off ..... This question arose from something Yale wrote, saying that his 7x57 AI would be good for sheep but too small for bear..Really.... But the 06 is ok ??? Can any one prove that the 06 kills say moose or elk any faster than the 260 Remington.. If the 308 is so good at killing Cape Buffalo , What about the 7-08 or the 6.5-08. I,m asking about real world hunting here where animals may be walking or there may be part of a bush obscureing a part of the animals anatomy. Or the light may be failing and the wind picking up , or some factor other than blue bird weather and posed animals. Considering that Trophy bulls usually arn,t shot in the head, Does any one have any data on how much time it takes an animal to expire from this cartridge or that . Thanks ,,, gumboot out.

Twist up another one, kick back and ponder this. A 22 lr has taken more caribou than all other cartridges combined!!

Paul H
That was a good post.


The 308 and the 300 Mag are 2 of my favorite cartridges, but I would not pick them as an all-round ctg for Alaska.

If I was picking a good allround rifle for Alaska, I would take a hard look at the Medium Bores.

The 338-06 for a start, ending with the 375 H&H.

The more BIG bears figured in to my future the more powerful I would consider, taking into consideration rifle weight and recoil.

They are highly under-rated because they do not have "flash" ie high velocity.

I have killed quite a bit of game, some of it very large wioth a 9,3x74R firing a 286 gr bullet at @2250fps, with perfect satisfaction.

The 338 Win Mag would be hard to beat. Ammo is easy to find and recoil does not seem that bad to me. A 9,3x62 would be a great choice as well.

Paul H's 350 Rem Mag would be just about perfect. I had one for a while and really liked it. Recoil was way less than a 375 H&H and my rifle was a Rem Custom Kevlar stocked Mod 7 with a 20" bbl. ie very light and handy
Like wise the 9,3's kick like a 30-06 and I feel just as effective as the 375 H&H on game IMHO.

I have a Blaser R 93 with the 19 3/4" Tracker bbl that I would use as I already have it, but the same rifle in 9,3x62 would kick less and be just as effective.

My vote is for a .300 win mag

For me the 375 H&H is a perfect fit, plenty powerful enough for the big bears and moose and is light enough to carry most of the day, recoil is very tolerable. I don't reload so I use Federal Premium 300 gr Nosler Paritions on above said animals.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
Hi Everyone .. Well I,m going to try to ask this question and not make anyone mad .... If , Say the 585 nYati is too big for genral Alaskan hunting... What would be too small and why or rather where is the cut off ..... This question arose from something Yale wrote, saying that his 7x57 AI would be good for sheep but too small for bear..Really.... But the 06 is ok ??? Can any one prove that the 06 kills say moose or elk any faster than the 260 Remington.. If the 308 is so good at killing Cape Buffalo , What about the 7-08 or the 6.5-08. I,m asking about real world hunting here where animals may be walking or there may be part of a bush obscureing a part of the animals anatomy. Or the light may be failing and the wind picking up , or some factor other than blue bird weather and posed animals. Considering that Trophy bulls usually arn,t shot in the head, Does any one have any data on how much time it takes an animal to expire from this cartridge or that . Thanks ,,, gumboot out.

Trying to stay with your questions here it has mostly to do with the shooter and the type of bullet he is loading. For example a 7mm08 loaded with solids will outperform a 7X57 with solids. What did Bell slaughter elephants with? 7X57 with solids is the answer and slightly less performance than a 7mm08.
Now the big bore guys love there big bores and that is great for the big bore guys. I have thought seriously about getting one myself but certainly not for need of one.
The biggest mammals on the earth bleed and don't wear armor. Heart stops and blood flow stops. Brain stops and all life stops. Lungs stop and oxygen deprived brain stops. High shoulder shoulder shots near the spine and all stops.

Laws regulate what we use now as far as legal minimums and for good reason. Do you use a solid bullet or an all copper expending bullet or a lead core bullet that separates. Lots of variables make one bullet better than another. I was on a Canadian forum not long ago and they discussed test of a 7mm08 with 140 TSX against 3006 with 200 gr core lokt and the 7mm08 performed better in penetration test.
I know of someone who has killed a lot of whitetails with a 22LR but it is not legal. Not legal does not mean not lethal. 22 magnum does work better however. When I was planning a moose hunt I asked an outfitter what caliber was needed. He said that he and his wife only used 308s. The Alaska website says 150 gr bullet at 2500 fps is all that is needed.
To answer the question as to what kills one animal the best it really comes down to the hunter and his weapon that he or she should be so familiar with that it is like a part of their body.

Well I,ve been pondering this for some time and I,m not all that sure my question has been answered .... Not that I don,t VERY MUCH APPRECIATE everyones comments.... I think part of it is that enough volumes of animals arn,t killed or that people arn,t interested in what works and how ,,,Exactly,,, it works.... ,,.I,m not sure the small bore guys on this site are the same as most of the small bore guys I,ve hunted with and been around ...........Unfortunatly I,ve seen far too many animals wounded and lost by small bores.....,.,People try to forget the animals they wound and loose.........Or they are so "under the influence" they don,t know or care........Reads like there is one of those here........No doubt plenty of bou have been shot with a 22. Some have even been killed in a timley manner....,,.,. Kind of like shooting a walrus with a 223, Then it washes up on a beach somewhere sevral days later.......... Can,t go to the b o t with that ivory...... But hey you can say you killed it with a 223......I,ve seen sevral caribou cross a road sporting a bullet wound.........Mayby the great nimrod had twisted too many of them up........There must be a reason They invented all these calibers above 308 diameter.........Now its true Walter Dyrlrimple Maitland Bell did some hunting with the 7 Mauser...But he also hunted with the 256 Manllicker. [6.5 M. S. ] the 318 Westly Richards and the 303 British...The 303 worked essespecially well.. However as has been pointed out in other works. When he did his last Ivory Expedition he used a 450/400 3"...... The 7x57 or 7,08 will kill probably any thing that will hold still long enough ,close enough, in nice open ground , broad side..........But animals especially trophy animals quite often don,t hold still... And they don,t walk around out in the open......They seldom "pass and review" execpt at high speed..... Experience , knowledge and a desire to be humane and not waste time or money ... Have proven for many years that M70nut ,N E 450 no 2, and PaulH are right when it comes to what works well.. And with ease and certainty..One point Dwight stressed which is the most important that a persons rifle should be part of them. Or that they must know their rifle and relly be able to hit what they want mor need to when they need to...Experience has shown that if you use a small bore, 8mm on down you may need to do it a couple ,few , sevral times in a short time frame........I think that is why the REPEATER was invented in the first place...........For all or those 30/30 fans out there........gumboot , goin huntin.