I lived in Alaska and carried a .357 for a couple of years, fortunately I never had to use it. I suspect it is under the prudent limits. Later, I carried an S&W 29 which I still have. Best defense is a short barreled shotgun with a hell of a slug!!!

I don't know way every body thinks a short barrel shotgun is the best. I rather have a short barreled rifle. With good ghost ring peep sights. They weigh about the same both have to be aimed to be effective.

Most slugs are made for deer size game and don't give as much penatration as good rifle bullets.

A marlin guide gun in 444 45-70 450 marlin ect. If I was going to carry a long gun I have a 18.5 inch 06 with peep sites that weighs 7.5 lbs about as much as a 12 ga pump and with 220's at just under 2300 fps should work just fine.

Some of the folks here have 18 or 20 incn 416s and 458s to much in a short light gun for me but more power to them that carry them.

But if a shotgun is all one has it sure in hell beats a sharp stick or ones hands.

Pdog, good point and since I have never had to stop a grizz with either I don't have an experianced answer.
I can tell you though why I like a 12 gauge short barreled pump.
First is that it is highly recommended by guides I have talked too.
Second is that even though there are many soft and hollow pointed slugs made for deer, there are also solid, hard deep penetrating slugs made as well.
Now I can shoot a lever action just about as fast and as accurately as I can shoot a pump, but only almost.
I can make a pump 12 gauge sound like a semiauto and hit things with it at the same time.
A bolt action is far slower to get off aimed rounds with, at least for me, and for anyone else I have ever seen.
Not that they can't be worked extremely fast by a competent rifleman, but a pump is just faster.

I am not saying that speed of rounds fired should be the main criteria.
I have stopped charges by other dangerous animals some at mere feet.
And to date have not had to shoot more than once per charge.
But I know that is partly luck, and someday if I keep going where I do I am going to have to be in a position where it will be all or none.

If I am ever in that position I can't think of a better weapon to have in my hands than a short barreled Remington 870 in 12 gauge with heavy hard slugs.
They come up so fast, they aim so instinctive and they get aimed rounds out almost without thought.

quote:

I don't know way every body thinks a short barrel shotgun is the best.

Lets try this argument.....you're not there to shoot bears....you're there for fishing and hiking.....

If one owns a Ithaca 37 featherweight then it's very easy to carry on a sling....quite light....and holds five shells.....and that's five shells I can get off (and aimed) inside six seconds!

It's use is for defense and that only.....and by definition....defense don't happen at 100 yards.....it happens at ten yards.....

I'm sticking with the slug gun under this test!

As to the .357 handgun.....it wouldn't be my first choice....nor my second....or even thirtyseventh either. It'll just piss off the bear!

If all I had was a 357, then I wouldnt have a problem using it, luckily I have my 44's.

I dont even own a shotgun (wife has 3). I wouldnt be able to hit the ground if it wasnt for gravity with one of those contraptions. I try to shoot them like a rifle, bad habit I just cant break (you should see me at Trap )

I have my 20" 9.3x62 and my co-pilot for bears.

I don't know how many 10000's of rounds I have put through pump guns I cut my teeth on a 20 ga 870. I shot a 20 ga model 12 for years my 12th birthday present .

I have shot thousands of 12 ga slugs through 870 riot guns during training and as a shotgun instructor. I can amaze my freinds and co workers with the speed I can get rounds down range. Put full power slugs out of a light pump ect still have to be pulled out of recoil and brought back on target to get a hit. Its not how fast one shoots it shots on the target that counts.

Its a whole lots differant useing magum slugs and buck then controling trap loads and its a whole lot differant hitting with a single slug then a shot pattern.

If a rifle fits you they are just as fast on target as a shot gun. Carry what you want for me if I am going to carry a long gun its going to be a rifle. Unless I have nothing else but a shotgun to use.

[GrayDuck],
Is a 357 enough gun for any bear up to big browns? What a challenging question.
If you survive an attack, it is. I love the 357 magnum but personally would leave it home in brown country. Hunting here in NY and PA we have black bears that will either run away quicker than you would, or some (larger-older) ones that are not fearful will chomp, bite the air and stand you off telling you it’s their domain your standing in. I’ll carry a 357 with confidence during scouting & bow season, but then you didn’t here that here. But blacks are not brownies.

Never been to Alaska but I’m thinking a 44 Magnum would be the minimum backup.
Unless you’re planning on shooting yourself instead, to avoid tasting a bear claw that came in from the back of your neck.

Shot guns are great if you feel like lugging one around during other sporting activities.
A copper solid sabot slug x5 in a semi auto is probably good night medicine for a grumpy old bear. “Lights out Yogiâ€

Smith makes a nice 629ES emergency survival 44 mag and Ruger a new Alaskan Redhawk both are short barreled 44’s and about the same weight.

Me, I would carry a 44 snub on one hip and a can of bear spray on the other hip and sport with someone who is slower than me in a 100 yard dash.

Sorry Charlie…….I'll look after yer guns.

lol

Let me relate a story (and a very true one) about the .357 handgun.

A friend once told he tried to finish a downed moose with one and at ten feet the bullet bounced off the moose's head.....and I thought it was just another "hunting story"

Then I decided to hunt with a .357 (8" Dan Wesson) for deer one year and some folks had knocked down a small doe with their rifles and I came across the small doe...it's head up and unable to stand........I decided to end the fight for the deer humanely with a shot to the head.....and at six feet distance I carefully placed a Federal factory load in the eye of the deer.

Yes it killed the animal instantly.....but at that distance (and no skull to penetrate) except to exit....it did not exit.....a doe that dressed out less than 90 pounds.....and the bullet entered the eye socket and lodged somewhere in the head.....

I was dearly unimpressed for sure and then I remembered the moose story.....and for the first time I actually believed it!!!

Use a .357 for defense against brown bear?????....IMO that's insane!....

[quote] A friend once told he tried to finish a downed moose with one and at ten feet the bullet bounced off the moose's head.....and I thought it was just another "hunting story"[end]


Hey Vapodog,
Maybe that was a female Moose and she used too much Mousse gel in her hair?

lol



Corny I know but I can’t help it.

I know the .38 caliber proponents will reiterate the 'flat point hard cast' prescription for the 357 as bear defense, but really I won't be betting my life on it.
I've stared western black bears in the face, got the bear skull on my desk and I see it every day.
I'll be bringing hot 44 *at least* as my insurance policy.


--Tinker

Entertaining thread!

May I interject some reality instead of advertising hyperbole?

A gent named Wesson in 1935 killed Kodiak Browns with the then new 357 Magnum using the soft lead bullets of the period.

Rabbit creek killing them isn't the idea stopping them from chewing on you is.

Two differant ideas. I shot through the lungs and heart with about anything will kill them.

And a gent named Capstick snuck up on a cape buff and killed him with one shot from a 357 behind the shoulder..

They damn sure will kill.
But again will they stop, but then again as Chub said one time, anything less than a howitzer would have felt too small..

More than anything stopping a charge has far less to do with caliber and far more to do with cool headedness.
I would rather have one of these PH's that post here saving my bacon with a 22 long rifle than most others with a 458.

quote:

Originally posted by Rabbit Creek:
Entertaining thread!

May I interject some reality instead of advertising hyperbole?

A gent named Wesson in 1935 killed Kodiak Browns with the then new 357 Magnum using the soft lead bullets of the period.

And a man named Bell killed elephants with a 7 X 57 but few are recommending it!

Western Black bears tend to be smaller than their Adirondack cousins. A 30/30 has many times proved to be more than enough for black bear. A 45 Super is plenty for Rocky Mountain lions and black/cinnamon bears. Grizzlies are a whole nother proposition. Alaskan browns another several levels up from Mountain grizzlies I hear.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Let me relate a story (and a very true one) about the .357 handgun.

A friend once told he tried to finish a downed moose with one and at ten feet the bullet bounced off the moose's head.....and I thought it was just another "hunting story"

Then I decided to hunt with a .357 (8" Dan Wesson) for deer one year and some folks had knocked down a small doe with their rifles and I came across the small doe...it's head up and unable to stand........I decided to end the fight for the deer humanely with a shot to the head.....and at six feet distance I carefully placed a Federal factory load in the eye of the deer.

Yes it killed the animal instantly.....but at that distance (and no skull to penetrate) except to exit....it did not exit.....a doe that dressed out less than 90 pounds.....and the bullet entered the eye socket and lodged somewhere in the head.....

I was dearly unimpressed for sure and then I remembered the moose story.....and for the first time I actually believed it!!!

Use a .357 for defense against brown bear?????....IMO that's insane!....

What load were you and your moose hunting friend using? I use very different loads in my .357 for hunting than I do for self defense against 2-legged critters. I can absolutely guarantee that my .357 hunting loads will easily penetrate a moose skull.