Garrett cartridge offers a 350 grain Woodleigh weldcore for the 45-70 gov't at 2000 fps. Would this be a reasonable load for Brown bear out of a modern 24" Marlin under 100-125 yards?

quote:

Originally posted by Wallace Gaye:
Garrett cartridge offers a 350 grain Woodleigh weldcore for the 45-70 gov't at 2000 fps. Would this be a reasonable load for Brown bear out of a modern 24" Marlin under 100-125 yards?

Yes

Thanks tsturm

I tested some of those and I think it is a very well balanced load. The velocity does not exceed the bullet's capability, and the velocity will be a little more than that. 2000 is more like a Guide Gun velocity. From a 22" barrel, it was clocking 2090fps and the ES was 4fps with an SD of 2. You should break 2100fps with a 24". The pressures were also very reasonable; not near as high as one would expect from the velocity achieved. From my gun, pressures appeared even lower than what Garrett states.

Even with all the high praise, I still don't consider the 45-70 to be a cartridge to go "looking" for brown bear with, although the combination of rifle and load would be an excellent defensive duo. If you must, I'd keep shots under 100 yds.

Thanks also to you, NFMike

I'd like a chance to rephrase my question. Would this round/gun be a good choice for a Boat based Brown bear hunt in the fall. In the spring, I understand that the bears come to the shoreline to feed but in fall the hunter generally walks up salmon streams in search of his bear. Reviewing past threads, I have seen several comments that these fall hunts bring the hunter much closer to the bear than in spring hunts and that the average "fall shot" is usually only 30-60 yards. If that is the case I'm surmising, without having any actual expierence, that a 24" Marlin would be a near perfect choice. The range is clearly within a powerful kill zone, and if you got really up close and personal with a big bruin, the gun is great for defense. Any comments on that more restrictive hypothetical case.

In that scenario it would certainly be a good choice, with a caveat.

Say you've hunted deer with an -06 for decades and shoot it like it's extension of you. Changing to a different type of rifle for a once in a lifetime hunt would be, IMHO, a very bad choice of rifle.

When people sacrifice shot placement by choosing rifles they can't shoot well or aren't familiar with, they are poorly armed indeed.

Of course the solution to familiarization is a heck of a lot of range time with the Marlin using all kinds of loads listed in http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570cast.htm and http://www.gmdr.com/lever/4570g350_dat.htm plus firing garrett cartridges.

Paul H. Your caveat is well noted. I already have the marlin and have been to the range twice. I'm starting low and slow with Federal factory loads with 300 grain bullets at 1880 fps. So far so good. Subjectively, recoil on a par with my...please don't gag...7mm Rem mag. And accuracy acceptable. But the bigger stuff is in the mail...Garrett and Buffalo bore... so the jury is still out. I won't go with a rifle I can't shoot and I won't go until this sixty year old body is in good condition. I have a potential shot at a Sept 2007 hunt but have not sent in the deposit yet. So as of this moment, as they say in Texas, I'm all hat and no cattle. I may well lose out and have to wait 'til 2008, but I can't help but feel a high level of confidence is necessary for a first time Alaskan Brown bear hunter. That's why I'm asking so many questions.
scr83jp, thanks for the two links. I do reload and adaquate practice with factory ammo would cause severe pain in the wallet. I've never used a crimping die, so that will be new.
Best
Wally

I wouldn,t go shooting many heavy loads in your marlin..There are lots of them here and the failure rate for them is higher than alot of people would like to think .....The lever action is an old design that was not made for the intense ammo now available ......6 rounds of high pressure ammo per year......The guide gun with its compact design is a great summer gun ,,,. If you want to hunt a brown bear .. get a Ruger 375 Ruger and you will be set for 5 ft - 250 yrds... gumboot out.......

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
...There are lots of them here and the failure rate for them is higher than alot of people would like to think .....

Mr. gumboot458,
This is the first we have heard of this. (Of course, there is an awful lot going on that I don't hear about.) Will you be so kind as to state where you are getting your information from?
No offense is intended. Am certain you are repeating information you believe to be true. I would just like to research this matter a little further as it does not reflect what we have experienced and/or observed regarding responsible high performance loads in the .45-70 Marlin.
Even Marlin came out with a high intensity cartridge for their big bore lever action.
Your assistance in this matter is most appreciated.
Best Wishes

If you break a Marlin with a Garrett load in less than a million rounds, there was something wrong with your gun. In no way is the Garrett an excessively "high pressure load". Buffalo Bores are in a whole other galaxy, as far as comparing to Garrett pressures. Even then, no one has broken a Marlin with a Buffalo Bore load. Yes, some have been "broken" but by idiots that loaded even in excess of those pressures.

This summer a good friend of mine had to kill a bear that was breaking into things at a local farm ...When the bear showed up his guide gun clicked on 3 consecutive shots... He used the rifle of the person that was with him and it worked fine.. It was a guide gun also..I don,t know if the saftey was partialy engaged or what .. Another friend had one that after a shot it wouldn,t open ,,until he disasembled the rifle ..A lady at my wifes work had her inlaws up and wanted to take them out crik fishin , but her guide gun was broke down.... I know of 2 take down wild west marlins that wouldn,t work for more than a few rounds each on a guided Brn bear hunt on Baranof....Its true alot of people like their marlins ... I do too .. But for something as important as a guided bear hunt I would recomend a good reliable bolt action rifle..

Most of the people who had their rifles not work were not useing heavy ammo....So to call them idots is only showing yourself to be someone who lacks experince or the lack of a user base where you live ....Course , in a place like Wyoming I don,t guess you have much need for a rifle you would have to Rely on ....And lastly , if a gun isn,t idiot pruff it is a poor choice for a bear rifle. Since Marlin made the backwards leap and put a saftey on their rifles ..They really messed them up...I grew up with lever actions and there is nothing more natural for me than thumbing the hammer back as the rifle is on its way to my shoulder ....After the 2nd time the saftey messed me up on my guide gun I got rid of it .....Now if the lever gun in question was a model 71 or non saftey 86 in say 450 Alaskan then he would have a perfact Alaskan bear rifle .... Load a 350 gr bullet to 2200 fps and have at er ...

Mr. gumboot458,
Thank you for clarification. I misunderstood. I thought you were saying the rifles were failing because of the heavy loads.

I now understand your complaint is with the new "safety". We are in your corner on this one. We got around the problem by attaching a circlip on the push button so that the safety can not be engaged accidentally; or otherwise unless the clip is removed. Some individuals of our acquaintance use a rubber O ring. Others remove it altogether.
You are 100% correct, when you need your "Bear Gun" up here, you need it right now; and without failure it must work as "advertised".
Thanks again.
Best Wishes

Its not just the saftey ,, A friend in the town that you are in WW had a blued guide gun ,, wanted a stainless and got one ... loaded it one time and took off on his quad .. when he went to chamber a round {{ nothing happened..}} the lever wouldn,t open .. It haddn,t froze shut from heavy loads ... It just wouldn,t work...I view marlins as being just a bit better than stainless stalkers.......What a poj those are .. A friend of mine ended up, up a tree with a bear at the base of it after fireing a warning shot with one in 375 cal...After the bear left he had to go to his camp and take the rifle apart to get the bolt to open...,, something to do with the trigger,, saftey , ect..This happened @ False Island...If you can get your guide gun to work 100 % Great .. But alot of them Don,t.. There has been alot of talking on the Big bore forum about CZ and Ruger rifles being project guns... That is 10 times more with the Marlins...And I would Really like to see a several thousand round trial with the average large caliber lever action rifle..I seriously doubt they would last that long ....I mean a real world Alaskan tourture test....Any time the recoil of the shot bucks the rifle open that can,t help the integrity of the rifle.....I have seen it happen and had it happen even when the trigger hand was on the outside of the lever.........The guide gun is a great rifle but it needs to be used in the correct context... What makes it so good is its compactness and relative killing power....NOT its action design....

Gumboot

There is much more to functioning than a rifle. Both rifle and ammo must be tested, cleaned, kept in good condition etc...

The thread about the clicking vs safety is a non issue in my books, it was operator error.

We do have a guide gun blued, that my nephew drives pretty warm. They had a bit of work to get the best loads and ammo that works after they've reloaded it reliably. Took some time to break in and smooth the gun up good.

Since then its nothing but reliable and smacks pretty hard with a big X bullet in the tube. Yet to try cast bullets, but they'd be just like anything else, make sure it all works and feeds and fits right.

Much like a brand new bolt gun of any kind. Get the heavy grease out, load the rounds, check em etc..... My friend had borrowed one of my 300 wtby guns for an elk hunt. He needed more ammo and I don't have a die for each gun, I did not have the gun to check so I set up the die to bottom off the shellholder, max sizing to be safe. I'd bougth a few hundred once fired pieces of brass. I sized and loaded and admonished him to check all 50 rounds by chambering.... which he failed to do. He shot his 7x7 at a bit over 300 yards and when he went to shoot another insurance shot that round would not chamber. Came home and I checked all of the remaining of the 50....I tossed 3 more rounds that would not chamber for some reason.

So if things are done right, the tool mentioned is just fine. I personally prefer to stick to something I"m really familiar with, which is why I hunt with an AR based rifle a LOT. I"ve almost slept with them over the years and can drive them well enough. While my bolt actions might get drug out once a year IF.....

Have seen the Guide gun talked about quite a bit on other forums, lots of buffalo bore loads used and no negative comments to speak of other than personal ones...

Regards, Jeff

*** YOU BET YOUR LIFE ***

For Brown Bear HUNTING , -- and with a good experienced Guide as back-up , a thick jacketed , high penetrating 350 , might be O.K. , -- but will not be profound .

For stopping a Brown Bear CHARGE , the load would be woefully inadequate . --- A little reading up on this , ( there are a gazillion sources ) will reveal that if you must stick to .45-70 ; --- the hairiest , and heaviest , LBT type hardcasts , ( as in Buffalo Bore and Garrett brands ) are the way to go .

Trouble is , the wildest .45-70 load out there , is not nearly as good , ( as a Stopping load ) , as the good old .458 Win . factory 500 SP .

Roaming around in high-population Bear Country , -- a close-range Charge is always a remote possibility .

--- But if you are going to HUNT Browns , the odds of a charge , go WAY up , --- and wounded Bears are very hard to stop .

---- MHO , MMCOUGAR .

MM

I'm curious, how many folks actually use a 458 for bear these days? I know if I could afford to hunt one I would. But I also have a friend that guides bear and the large rounds seem very rare from clients. Probably as well as I'd prefer they hit correctly the first shot so we have no issues..

But up close that 45/70 has as much stomp as what I hear are commonly used rounds.

Regards, Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:... loaded it one time and took off on his quad .. when he went to chamber a round {{ nothing happened..}}...I view marlins as being just a bit better than stainless stalkers.......What a poj those are ... What makes it so good is its compactness and relative killing power....NOT its action design....

Mr. gumboot458,
Had to take a break before replying as to ensure I was not misunderstanding you again.
Obviously, we do not agree on the relative merits of the lever action rifle.
However, for your friend to take a "new" rifle (of any sort) out to hunt with, without even cycling rounds through the action, much less firing the weapon or even checking to see where the sights might be pointing? You say he is from Sawmill Creek, Alaska? (Where we live is not a town but a small "community" of not much more than 50 or so people, including children.) If you would be kind enough to provide his name, will be glad to visit and provide whatever meager assistance we may be able to offer. Though we are probably not friends, we are certainly neighbors and an offer of considerate assistance is usually looked upon favorably.
Best Wishes

quote:

Originally posted by mmconcolor:
*** YOU BET YOUR LIFE ***

For Brown Bear HUNTING , -- and with a good experienced Guide as back-up , a thick jacketed , high penetrating 350 , might be O.K. , -- but will not be profound .

For stopping a Brown Bear CHARGE , the load would be woefully inadequate . --- A little reading up on this , ( there are a gazillion sources ) will reveal that if you must stick to .45-70 ; --- the hairiest , and heaviest , LBT type hardcasts , ( as in Buffalo Bore and Garrett brands ) are the way to go .

Trouble is , the wildest .45-70 load out there , is not nearly as good , ( as a Stopping load ) , as the good old .458 Win . factory 500 SP .

Roaming around in high-population Bear Country , -- a close-range Charge is always a remote possibility .

--- But if you are going to HUNT Browns , the odds of a charge , go WAY up , --- and wounded Bears are very hard to stop .

---- MHO , MMCOUGAR .

Somebody call the looney bin! The bearaniod is loose again.

I don't think he mentioned anything about stopping bear charges, and his rifle is very ballisticly capable at reasonable bear hunting ranges.

Hey WW ;;don,t you live in Sitka ??? That is the problem with these computer things... Perhaps if you would be so kind as to provide us with your name then we would know who you are.and your address then we would know where you are.... And that you do have the experience to show a life long Alaskan with 20 years of lever gun experience how to operate a rifle that he has already used...Do you work in an office or are you a school teacher...???? Perhaps you are milatary or a copper... Most Alaskan,s are kind of casual with their hunting rifles....But even the retentive type like me .,.often times , we just require our rifles to work and be RELIABLE !!!!!!!!!!!!! Which is why I like to have rifles built on a Ruger 77 mk 2 ,, CZ 550 or model 70 win action and the 98 commercial mauser and 14,17 enfields .....Reliability....Marlins are in vouge .. and I like them ... but I don,t have any of them ... simpley because they are not reliable enough and need too much loctite..... On the Big Bore forum there are guys who purchased both CZ and Ruger rifles ,, { for 1-2 thousand dollars and more } and the rifles didn,t work...Most of the troubles encountered with new rifles not working is usually easy to fix and most of it can just be done by someone who likes to tinker ......Some of the problems are not tinkerable and need to be fixed or replaced by the factory......Where I live the guide gun is bought and used by alot of people who don,t necessarily invest alot of time in their rifle ... They just want something to go hikeing or berry picking with.... I know a guy who shoots deer with a 270 , but then gets his 45/70 to pack the deer out.... Yes I think that the e clip like Joel uses will work well ... But marlins suffer from more than just the saftey problem.....Had Ruger came out with a 450 Marlin ..Frontier rifle ... With the greatest reliability and safest, saftey in the bussiness ..... They would have made the perfact hikeing companion...That wouldn,t be hindered by needing flat nose bullets....Course then all the W,I,M,P, gun writers would squall about the recoil..... even tho it would be less than a Marlin Guide gun ....So my orig . advice for someone comeing up here to hunt trophy Brn Bear .. to get a 375 Ruger is spot on........A comparably priced , stronger , more idiot pruf, longer lasting more versitile rifle....that is much more RELIABLE.for many more decades and thousands more rounds.....

Oh Ya ,, and by the way you should check my avatat to see how to hit with a real rifle ..A 458 Win Mag probably isn,t the most recomended rifle for a visiting trophy hunter....Not that it won,t work best .. But most people don,t take the time to become good buddies with their rifle and learn to handload good ammo that is versitile enough for it....It kills with great authority .and you don,t have to wait for a perfact angle shot ... But , most people will squall about recoil rather than fix the problem... A 416 Ruger would be kind of the perfact bear rifle , if Ruger brings it out .. With the 375 Ruger for the extremly recoil sensitive......Actually if they would just bring out a long action , standard weight, weather pruf 416 Rem Mag. or standard action 416 Taylor , or any of the 40/41/42 /..cal belted wildcat/legitimized rounds with a 20 " barrel , a 2nd recoil lug , express sights and dual scope dove tails like on the Frontier ....Well that would be my wish list....Most people will be best served at the time being with a 338 , 358 , 366 ,or 375 caliber rifle that produces min . 4 ,000 Ft Lb. energy w/ a 250 gr bullet or heavier of super premium construction ...And MM you need to get up here and charge yourself some bears so you can write from personel experience...

Mr. gumboot458,
My address is listed at the bottom of all my posts: Sawmill Creek, Alaska.
My offer to help your friend was not intended to be anything other than what it is. A simple offer to help a fellow hunter whom I thought to be a neighbor, as indicated by your comments. It appears that will not be possible.
Hope he has been able to get his Marlin up and running to his satisfaction.
Best Wishes

Gum

You sure are confident. And a bit condescending if I might add, considering you don't know who you are typing to. That added together with poor spelling isn't looking good, much like a kid on the net with too much time.

Glad to see that we can do bears without a 458. I"ve never talked to a guide that suggested one, most suggest a mid range rifle. And if asked, will simply say, sure IF you can handle it. I can, and would, but many cannot.

Interesting on the Marlin that it needs loctite, my nephew shoots the crud out of his, and not light loads, we'll have to go back in and check all the screws. Could be just some are good and there is a lemon now and then like any car or gun or anything really. My very first Zeiss scope broke on its 2nd shot. I still use them as the glass is great and they are a great scope though. Even if a lot of folks think the L is a better scope.

Wish I could enlarge your avatar. Looks like it could be interesting.

Best of wishes, I think we've covered the subject all the way from every view by now.

Jeff

In point of fact when someone lists an unknown part of Alaska , Then when queried doesn,t provide clarification ,, and offers their assistance .. A guy wonders who they are that their assistance would be helpful .......Haveing lived on Sawmill Creek Road for a period of time but Never haveing come accross a town in Alaska named Sawmill Creek ,, I kind of wonder.....Is this poster some kid with a fictous imagination..from NYC , ect.. ......Now I may have missed it , { not unlikely ], But in searching thru the Alaska Atlas and Gazzetteir , sp, I could find no such place ,tho there are alot of criks named sawmill creek .... So hopefully you can understand my curosity....And perhaps wrongly on my part disdain for someone who,s wording is such that they come accross as a school teacher or milatary man .Not that there is any thing in any way wrong with either......But I usually enjoy being Proven wrong .....If the person truley has a clue about what they are talking about......I guess that the sevral stainless guide guns that I have seen around with blued screws in them don,t indicate they loosen up and loose parts ???.. In thousands of rounds I,ve never had anything fall off my Rugers... ,,I think I may buy a guide gun just to document its failures.....My blued one didn,t stop working but then I didn,t have it very long..... It did buck the action open some tho....On the positive side it was very easy to hit with in a hurry.......And very agreeable to lug around...Someday I will learn how to post pictures on here ..However if any one provides thier email address I can email pics...

quote:

Originally posted by WindWalker:
....... your friend....... You say he is from Sawmill Creek, Alaska? (Where we live is not a town but a small "community" of not much more than 50 or so people, including children.) If you would be kind enough to provide his name, will be glad to visit and provide whatever meager assistance we may be able to offer.....

Mr. gumboot,
If you have the time, you may take note of my statement and that I said I do not live in a town. Furthermore, if I lived in NY how could I volunteer to visit "your friend" and be of any assistance, meager as it may be.
My wife and I are both retired and have been for a long time.
Our part of Alaska is not unknown to those of us who reside here.
Good to hear you are happy with your Rugers. They are a very fine firearm.
Best Wishes

Bill Ruger

The man who sold us down the road to the anti's in the early assault weapons bill.

I"ve got room for a #1 eventually cause I'm having a hankering.

Other than that I wouldn't have anything to support him at all...

I"d surmise that Mr. Windwalker might surprise you with some of his background.

Jeff

Hope you guys don't mind if I chime into this lively discussion. Often, I enjoy Mr. Gumboot's off-the-wall rhetoric. You never know what he might say next – then on some subjects he’s predictable, though it’s difficult to follow his writing style.

But, back to the original questions posed by Wallace Gaye. If 350 gr @ 2000 fps from a 45-70 is good for bear or moose, what about 400 gr from a 450 Marlin approaching 2000 fps? There are several good bullets available, especially the 400 gr North Fork. A few months back, I got a chance to acquire a stainless Ruger 77 MK II chambered in 350 Rem Mag, previously belonging to Gumboot. As quick as possible, I ordered a pre-fitted, chambered barrel from Pac-Nor in 450 Marlin, and sent the whole thing to my gunsmith to assemble. He promises to have it to me before the snow melts away at the local range. That may be a while because it is a blizzard now, but I can hardly wait to shoot it. Judging from some of the published loading data, I expect to get 2000 fps from 400 gr bullets. I am more familiar with the bolt action and feel more confident with it.

I am aware of several of the examples given by Gummy regarding the Marlin rifle. I thought long and hard about buying one, but decided it isn’t for me. After reading the comments in this discussion, I asked one of the Marlin owners to refresh my memory about his experience with his 45-70 shooting the so-called Magnum Buffalo Bore loads. He said the rifle works good now that he quit shooting the heavy loads. I asked for more details and he said first that the rifle kicked too much for him to use regularly with the heavy loads, and it would not eject properly, and eventually just froze up. He said he took it apart, cleaned and reassembled it carefully, examining it for damage, and it has worked properly since then, but now he shoots only the mild factory loads. In my opinion this was a reliable source. I have heard similar stories from several reliable sources, which had a bearing on my decision to have the Ruger 77 rebarreled to 450 Marlin.

It's really an odd and unreconcilable thing to me that some people say they have never had a problem with their Marlins, and shoot heavy loads, etc., and others say they have had problems. It's interesting to note that I don't personally know the people who say/write everything is fine, and I do know many of those who have had problems with their Marlin, and I'm sure they are not lying, and I'm pretty sure they know how to keep a gun clean and lubricated. That alone influences me a lot. The two guys that come to mind own several rifles, bolt, lever, & semi-auto, and they shoot a lot. Neither are handloaders. They don't say the same of their other rifles as they say about the Marlin.

So, I reached the conclusion that the Marlin mechanism is just complicated, and the heavy 45-70 loads exceed the design capabilities of the action. Also, I think the Marlin has a rear locking bolt, and this allows the brass to stretch with each firing, more so the heavier the load. I also have heard that the chamber is not so tight either. So this means to me that the Marlin is best used by a non-handloader, who considers brass throw-away. Furthermore, even though the rifle is quick to point, I don’t like the stock design for recoil absorption – the bolt action with a Hogue being much better suited. Being familiar with a particular action type is of great importance in my opinion for hunting big game that could do bodily injury. I’m just clumsy with the lever action, never having owned one. I understand that all of this is arguable, but I have my reasons, and believe they are well founded. I’m not willing to spend my money on an experiment to prove others who disagree with me wrong. I am willing to listen to others who have experience with the rifles, and make my decision accordingly. In this case, I heard too much unfavorable.

So, you guys who like the Marlin, and think it’s the cat’s meow, more power to ya. I’m happy for you. I’m not saying the Ruger is the best alternative, but it was just available, and had the magnum bolt face. I understand that now Styer is making the pro-hunter in 450 Marlin. I think that would be interesting.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
.....Being familiar with a particular action type is of great importance in my opinion for hunting big game that could do bodily injury....
KB

Mr. Kabluewy,
Do believe you are 100% correct (regarding this statement) and you will undoubtedly be very happy in your choice of rifle; for the reasons you have stated.
Have a safe hunt and if you have time, please let us know how it goes. Am certain all will be interested.
Best Wishes

quote:

Originally posted by Wallace Gaye:
I'd like a chance to rephrase my question. Would this round/gun be a good choice for a Boat based Brown bear hunt in the fall. In the spring, I understand that the bears come to the shoreline to feed but in fall the hunter generally walks up salmon streams in search of his bear. Reviewing past threads, I have seen several comments that these fall hunts bring the hunter much closer to the bear than in spring hunts and that the average "fall shot" is usually only 30-60 yards. If that is the case I'm surmising, without having any actual expierence, that a 24" Marlin would be a near perfect choice. The range is clearly within a powerful kill zone, and if you got really up close and personal with a big bruin, the gun is great for defense. Any comments on that more restrictive hypothetical case.

Mr. Gaye,
Let me state right up front that we have never hunted coastal Brown Bears from a boat. Our experience has been limited to interior Grizz.

However, combined with our extensive use of lever actions, it prompts us to say your choice of weapon and cartridge is an excellent one. We have used other Woodleigh bullets with never a failure. They have always held together and penetrated deeply.
Anytime things may get sticky, our Marlin in .50AK is the weapon we grab. It was built by Wild West Guns for us many years ago and has never failed to fire or has it ever jammed. No screws have fallen out, etc.
Before conversion, it probably had well over 1000 rounds of heavy .45-70 loads through it. It always went bang when the trigger was pulled. In the past we have owned a number of other Marlins, all of which were very reliable. Same goes for everyone else we have known that uses this fine weapon. There is one very well known gentleman (among others) who has used the Marlin on a variety of African dangerous game. I can provide you with references, if you so desire.

A normal amount of care (cleaning, lubing, etc.) and proper operation (always operate the lever briskly is one recommendation I make) will provide the same level of reliability as found in any other firearm. The design has been around for over 100 years for a reason....It still works.
All of the above is merely my personal opinion based on personal experience in the field.
Good luck with your hunt! No doubt you will treasure the memories for a lifetime.
Best Wishes

Wallace ; My point with my recomendayion is from a standpoint of doing plenty of fall bear hunting..Useing boats to access the areas.....You might well get a shot from 10 feet ..... But mayby ,the only bear that is available to you ,ie doesn,t wind you and split , see you and hold back in the brush ect .ect. may be @ 250 yards,, Are you willing to chance a very expensive hunt on the one choice that you can easily make that can affect the outcome of your hunt...Ruger didn,t wait this long to name a rifle the Alaskan for no reason... And the old standby 338 Alaskan are pretty much Ideal ....I wonder if Wind Walker and rost 495 are George Roof and that buddy of his .....Funny how WW always writes in the plural sense....And whats up with the criptic location.. If anyone else reading this has a clue to their location then please share it .. Thanks ......

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
....And whats up with the criptic location.. If anyone else reading this has a clue to their location then please share it .. Thanks ......

I'm sure you meant to write cryptic, rather than criptic.

That's an easy one - Gumboot. Sawmill Creek is near the Twilight Zone. You know - we're all here because we're not all there, and everywhere you go, there you are.

Is that the clue you're looking for? Hopefully that clears it up for you.

Oh yes, I agree with you - I would prefer the 375 Ruger anytime over the Marlin 45-70. Flatter shooting, more versitile, more reliable, etc.

KB

Count me in too. The .45-70 has its place but as an all-arounder, it's WAAAYYY too slow.

Give me a .338 or .375 or even an '06 for that matter.