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Quote: I believe this guy would make an excellent California resident. His type have congregated here enmasse. One more won't make any difference. He can come on down and thaw out, then pay the guide fee and assistant guide fee and transportation fee, shipping fee that prohibits many like myself from hunting BB. I'd be more than willing to switch places and take my chances hunting BB in an area where there may be a wounded one. I would assume that there's always that risk while hunting them, as he has implied. He would be more productive having the res hunter with three shots brought to justice. What doesn't quite jibe with me is why should a guide be required to have a qualified assistant (The cost is prohibitive enough with just the guide fee.) yet he doesn't mention res hunters being required to have one too. Let me see if this sounds right; Nonres hunters are required to have a guide with an assistant guide (do we need a steno secretary to keep minutes too?) and res hunters are required to have a guide as their qualified assistant. Does that sound right? Sure, then look at the money flow. Why hell, just make it so expensive that only the very wealthy can hunt, the antis will just love that, a smaller group for them to attack. I agree he might be better off staying home where it's safe, then again there's always California. Bill | ||
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There are bear hunting "clients" and bear "hunters". Hunters are supposed to be semi-competent at what they do. They also accept the fact that hunting is hunting and nothin is a sure thing. They can also shoot competently. Clients just tag along and pull the trigger when told. (Unfortunately some pull the trigger even if told not to) As guide we take all sorts and are responsible for them all. If you havn't done it don't critisize those who do. I've faced a number of charging wounded brown bears and also have a bullet hole in the back of my thigh. Bears usually take awhile to maul you but a bullet is instantanious. Usually when a hunter botches a set up simple shot at an unwounded bear they are certainly not to be trusted behind you with a loaded rifle. < !--color--> < !--color--> | |||
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I've been following along and remained silent till now.I am a client not an outfitter/guide. I have killed a 9'5" BB with a 3 pc Bear takedown 70# bow and arrow with one shot thru the lungs and a <100 yds recovery. I resent the fact that anyone being paid $10K or more to place me within 30 yds of a BB, then sit tight while I crawled the final 10 yards to raise up and stick an arrow thru it's side refers to me in a term"....just tagging along.... there to pull the trigger..." The fact is the guide is expected to act the professional ALL THE TIME, and the Client is expected to PERFORM FLAWLESSLY when it's his turn. Therein belies the current problem with the guiding industry in AK. The majority ( and I've been on no less than 23 outfitted hunts to AK) of guide/outfitters are partimers trying to desperately to keep their families fed and mortage paid. When the season is over they go back to their timber jobs,truck hauling,etc. lives. Have an ego the size of AK itself and have forgotten or never learned the basis of a quality outfitting buisness. Surely I feel for the guide that was mauled and his family. What human would not? But to ALL outfitters an guides did you forget your client runs risks in his line of employment every day as well? Does an iron worker not risk a fall so a corporate exec. can have a new office? Or a Bearing Sea crabber not risk a lung full of salt water so you can eat fresh caught King Crab? I'm willing to bet the guide that did get mauled would be the first to agree with this. BB | |||
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Ballbuster, I think you misunderstand 458WM's post. He refers to two different types of people who book brown bear hunts. 'Clients' who tag along and pull the trigger, and 'hunters' who are usually competent and know what to do at the right time. I get the impression, given your number of hunts, that you would fall in the 'hunter' category. Maybe whining a bit, but still a 'hunter.'  | |||
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Quote: Poor judgement is human. You're human, aren't you? You've never made a poor judgement call? "Before your time"? Who chooses the time? You? | |||
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Quote: Maybe, but I doubt it. I'm pretty good with Alaska history. I know of no man-killing bears that lived long afterwards. Can you cite such an occurrance? | |||
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Quote: Oh, here's some true wisdom. Let's have a "hearing". That's like a "meeting", isn't it? That'll fix everything. "Responsible". Well, seems to me the guide "responded". The client is safe, the bear is dead, and only the godlike are still upset. Yes, indeed, we need a "hearing". | |||
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Quote: Wow. Well, maybe you're right. And since one person can't logically be 100% responsible for the actions of another, it's time to do away with the guide requirements for non-resident hunters. Are you ready for that? And I'm not "making excuses" for anybody. I'm just impressed that the man told the media from a hospital bed that he made mistakes. I wonder if I'll ever read "walex" making such statements in the newspaper. And as for wounded bears in your wonderland, there are plenty of bears out there wounded by resident non-guided hunters. In fact, more bears (statistically) are wounded by non-guided hunters than by guided hunters. It's a dangerous world out there. Maybe you should stay home where it's safe. Maybe a meeting or hearing will fix it all. | |||
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Quote: Go get 'em, tiger. That's what we need; more government. Boy, you're a really smart guy. | |||
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Quote: Of course, you're not "ripping" anybody, are you? And, despite your repeated calls for a "hearing", you don't have an agenda, do you? | |||
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Sorry, folks, Mr. Walex just gave me too much to chew on. I couldn't help myself. I'll go to bed now. | |||
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There is a huge difference in "whining a bit" and speaking the truth. I live in NE Pa. and for many years commuted to The Big Apple each day in my employment, where I was expected to sort thru the "whiners" and the truth speakers. In short order one in my line learns to spot the differences REAL quick! Huntersnorth hit on a topic that I was recently approach about.... A statehood (such as AK ) mandateing a lisc. proff. guide to accompany an non resident US Citizen; hunter in the pursuit of certain species of wild game on territory owned and controlled by the USA Gov. ( of which AK is a sect of). This is an unconstitutional law that though challenged in the past would be hard pressed to be upheld in today's judical system. In actuality the citizen remains a citizen regardless whether they are hiking,biking,hunting,etc.. In practice the hunter is at no greater risk hunting than a unguided birdwatcher is should he stumble onto a mad boar BB or sow with cubs. Why do I raise this? Mainly because it is time for the owner/outfitter or partime guide/outfitter in some states to wake up an smell the coffee. This is not 1950 or 60 or even the 70's We are well into the 2000s, times HAVE changed! In closing I will go on record as saying there are many fine reputable outfitters thruout the entire USA, and to them I say THANK YOU! BB | |||
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Quote: Yes ..... "Old Groaner" .... early '30's Unuk River SE Alaska. | |||
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Quote: Yup, and Old Groaner is the only such long lived man-eating bear in Alaska that I know of. And certainly a strange bear he was. He was nearly bald when finally killed. | |||
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Quote: I agree, but no longer hold any inkling that it will change soon or even legislatively. The recent death of SB 297 (a bill allowing controlled marketing of bear parts as well as relaxing the guide requirements for brown bears in intensive predator control GMUs) taught me a good lesson. The guiding industry is still incredibly powerful when it comes to state government. Money still overpowers reason. I suspect that the only way the guide requirement will be done away with is through the courts. | |||
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I spend about 4-6 months a year in Ak now a days. Was a time when I spent 10-12 months a year there. I'd rather have a sport from most of the lower 48 hunting with me than most of the residents I met there,especially the natives. Most every hunter that traveled to Ak from down here spent a nice chunk of change to get there. Not to mention tags, etc., and as a whole they are pretty serious about their sport, didn't road hunt on the edge of town,shoot from a boat at swimming game,harrass wildlife from a plane, shoot herds of walrus with AK47s, shoot waterfowl in the spring, kill pregnat cow moose...and my list could go on and on. Basicaly the largest % of slob hunters in AK live in AK. Was a time the outfitters as a rule were honest hard working professionals. Today as a rule they are not.Too many are after a quick buck then get out. BUT!! there are some honest ones still around. I hunted in AK back when the upper Keani valley was truely wild, not the Eddie Bauer clad hiking paths it is today. Outfitters were honest and backed their hunters whom were more likely than not armed with a 30-06 an 220 gr RN, with a 30-40 Krag. They were the same Brownies then that they are today,weren't they????....maybe the guides just do not have the nerve like then.... | |||
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Ballbuster, I stand by my original statement, especially as this thread goes on...  | |||
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Quote: Where was it mentioned that he short-stroked the bolt? I must have missed it. Thanks. Russ | |||
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Russ, While not mentioned in the article above, in another interview the guide himself stated that he short-stroked his Sako rifle. I really respect the guys honesty! I wonder how he's doing? Maybe he'll be ready for them Fall season? | |||
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Okay, gotcha Brian, thank you. Yeah... I can see where that kinda-sorta contributed to things. Ca-ca happens, though. Yup, I admire brutal honesty like that. I hope the guy is mending okay and that his business doesn't suffer too much without him being directly involved. Thanks for the additional information, Brian. Take care. Russ | |||
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Sorry for getting into this at such a late date but Thing's some time's just go wrong . Even those of us that have hunted 10 or more can tell you ever time out is diffrent ... Even the best some time's wind up getting bit.... I hate to use these word's but some time's shit happen's beyond our control.. All i can say is that the guild was a was one lucky bugger . He will be reliving that for the rest of his life.... ( Where did i go wrong )? God speed on his recovery... | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Alaska Hunting Forum Re: Brown Bear "gets" Hunting Guide in S.E.
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